Amiga Tools 3/Amiga Tools 3.iso/grafik/raytracing/imagine/tips/arc15.txt

Text File | 1993-03-12 | 162.8 KB | 4,060 lines

IMAGINE archive: collected off of [e-mail]

ARCHIVE XV
Nov. 9 '91 - Nov. 26 '91

If you have questions or problems with this file, email Marvin Landis
at [e-mail]

note: each message seperated by a '##'

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Subject: Re: more 'bout lights
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 91 10:29:47 EST
From: [e-mail] (John J Humpal)

>
> setting ambient light to high will wash out shadows, you're right.  setting
> at 100 is a good place to start (I didn't mean that would be where you would

    I usually go the other direction:  start low and boost the
ambient up as needed.  I've used ambient as low as 5,5,5 and as high as
60,60,60.

> it is imposible to say
> what the exact setting should be without know the scene or the mood that is
> intended and as far as that goes what I see as one mood someone else will see
> as a different mood.

    Absolutely.  Ambient would be very different for, say, an
interior scene compared to an exterior scene or a surreal scene.

> Also a tip for everyone...keep a
> notebook and write down the settings you like and you can always refer back
> to it when you are doing a similar scene.

    This is an excellent tip.  I've just started doing this in the
last few months.

-John

John J. Humpal -- [e-mail] -- short .sig, std. disclaimer

##

Subject: Re: Not enough memory...
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 91 12:30:26 MST
From: [e-mail] (Steven Webb (The mutant squirrel-beater from Mars))

> [e-mail] (MOLDFIEL) writes:

>> All too often I get the message "Not enough RAM" when attempting to render..
>What you need to buy is more fast ram.  Imagine, like most programs, uses fast
[most of post deleted.]

    I just use the option in Imagine's config file that looks like:

    LOAD    F                       #  flag - load all modules

    (I think that it's the third line in the config file.)
    This should conserve on memory when loading things for rendering.  I
    have 5 Megs of Ram, and I can render some pretty complicated stuff that
    I wasn't able to render before.  This flag loads the maps and
    backgroounds only when needed.  (This saves on MAJOR ram, but increases
    the rendering time two or three-fold in a worst-case situation, like
    having a picture in the background, or something like that.)
        Other Ram-saving ideas are things like eliminating un-seen
    faces from the back of objects, and not using 24-bit maps, and so on...
        If your object seems to be just too big, you might try and
    simplify your object.  Try using the "merge" or "taut" command (It's
    one of those) from the detail editor, and it will clean up your object
    a bit.  Other ways of cleaning up or simplifying your objects are
    implemented in the new version of Pixel3D.  You could get Pixel3D to
    simplify your objects to save on ram, but this may be a bit on the
    extreme side.
        I was wondering, I had thought about writing a routine to do
    object simplification, and other sorts of things.  If anyone thinks
    that this would be a worth-while project, please mail me any feed-back.

        -- Steve
--
[e-mail]   |   Packet-saving sig   |   Have a nice night.

##

Subject: yet more lighting
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 91 16:46:59 PST
From: spi (Paul Howett)

o.k heres the situation, I am attempting to create a lightbulb consisting of a
glass lighbulb shaped object with a glass stalk inside that is supporting a
spiraling filament. The problem is I want the filament to emit light -
unfortunately it doesnt appear to glow when I make it a lightsource - I suppose
this falls into the category of glowing enterprise engine lights. Does anyone
understand what I mean and how to accomlish this? Thanks in advance.

##

Subject: A dusty path
Date: Sat,  9 Nov 91 17:37:41 PST
From: [e-mail]

Greetings greetings.
IMAGINE if you will, a front view of a garage.
You want a car to enter from the right hand side of the picture.
It will drive BEHIND the garage going from right to left.
After it re-emerges on the LEFT HAND side of the garage (still
facing left of course), you want it to turn TOWARD you...
come past the front wall of the garage...and turn INTO the open
garage door.

I have created a path that does this. NOW I find that
the car does as expected until it has to swing toward you.
I have the axis point following the path on the front bumper
of the car. But I cannot understand how to get the car to
swing around.  To make this clearer...the point does follow
the path...but the object (the car) stays in it's left facing
original orientation. Thus...it enters the garage sideways,
still facing to the left.

Fortunately, I have not sustained body damage on my Amiga. :-)

Do a good deed. Make a simple mind understand what he's doing wrong.

Thanks,
Sam

##

Subject: More More More Neon Lighting Attempts.
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 91 21:50:05 PST
From: [e-mail] (Paul Howett)

Yes - the reason I began trying to create a lightbulb - witha glowing filament
was that I originally was trying to get a ufo to have a lowing engine tous like
bar(tous = torus(argh line wrap)) wrapped around part of it. I couldnt get the
effect I wanted - something like a neon tube running around the ufo body. So I
decided to try something simpler - like a lightbulb with 8000 pints - yeah real
simple, now Im just tryng the filament alone. but to answer your query - yes
something like neon. (pint = points(arrgh))
Thanks again -

Amigas Forever (for a sentient compurer - drop 1 040 card into 1 stock amiga -
yea)
:)

##

Subject: IFF to 3D object
Date: 10 Nov 91  1:03 -0800
From: Andrew Niemann <[e-mail]>

In response to the review of Pixel_3D which also talked of making
3D objects from IFF pictures.

You can also make 3d objects from IFF pictures with VistaPro, using
either their free utility IFF2Scape or Scapemaker from MegageM. I tried
both Vista and Pixel3d to make a 3d object from a topographical map, and
Vista, via Scapemaker, seemed to give much better results for the same
size of object file (which can get pretty huge if you want). Pixel_3d
just averages the  height around its points whilst Vista seems to find
the edges that define a change in height. -eg. the volcanoes had craters
in them with Vista whilst with Pixel_3d they were just mild mounds.
Small islands just disappeared whereas Vista still had them poking up.
I at first thought that Vista's 258x258 image map size would be a
limitting factor, but since each pixel represents a discreet height
point you could have an object with 66,564 points. At the second to
highest resolution level it already produced an Imagine object some 900K
in size.

 Another benefit from the Vista aproach is that you can render the
whole map in low resolution to save on memory and rendering time. Then
render just those parts that need more detail in higher resolution and
cut them easily into the lower resolutioin object. The landscapes
objects are built with 64 sections, which are the same size no matter
what resolution you render in. These are grouped together so you can
easily drop out one of the group and put in the higher resolution
version of that section. These objects I then ungrouped, joined and
merged in Imagine. This gives a smaller object file although merging can
take quite a while (about an hour).

Another problem with Pixel3d was that Imagine would not read large
objects made by it. Bad chunk size (tried to phone them but they didn't
get back to me).

Scapemaker has a color value mode that will render each height
according to the value of that color (out of the full 4095) not just by
its palette position. This gives much finer control over the height
accuracy of your object. One unfortunate side effect of making objects
the Vista route is terracing. The object will have a terrace for each
band of color in the original IFF.  Pixel_3D's advantage here is that it
does not have this problem due to its averaging. Fortunately the
terracing is easily overcome in Vista by either using 'smoothing' a
number of times until it's gone or by using the Vista utility called
'Terraform'. Just smoothing ends up giving you basically the same result
as Pixel3D since the whole data set is averaged out.  Or you can use
Terraform, a great little program which I've gotten to really enjoy
despite its sort of weird quirks. It allows you to selectively smooth
the areas you want while you watch the result. It also allows you to
sculpt the object like clay with its smoothing tool, roughening tool,
raise and lower tool, and varying tool size. It's a beauty.



andy

##

Subject: iff to 3d object contd
Date: 10 Nov 91  2:45 -0800
From: Andrew Niemann <[e-mail]>

forgot to mention: VistaPro will directly generate TurboSilver objects for
you to save. You can generate them at four different levels of complexity.
When you generate and save your Turbo object Vista puts up a grid on the
map so that you can specify which sections you want to generate and save.
andy

##

Subject: Re: A dusty path
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 91 12:57:23 PST
From: [e-mail]

Quite simply, when you tell the object to follow the path you also click
on "align to Y". Then you make sure the Y axes for each axis along the
path is facing the correct direction. Voila, the car will turn as it
follows the path.

=========================================================================
Sean Schur                        USENET: [e-mail]
Assistant Director Amiga/Media Lab        Compuserve: 70731,1102
Character Animation Department            Plink: OSS259
California Institute of the Arts
=========================================================================

##

Subject: Filament covers and yet even more Neon type lighting.
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 91 17:26:56 PST
From: [e-mail] (Paul Howett)

I had tried having a "diffuser" over the filament to catch the light -
nearly the exact opposite of the most recent suggestion to make the cover the
light and have the filament catch and reflect the light - sounds like It should
work the inside out way around - (I hope) - I did finally have success
rendering the bulb w/o a "filament cover" It looked very good except for the
fact that the glass is so perfect (ie it has no bubbles in it) that it hardly
shows w/o turning up the pics brightness a whole lot. ( my light settings were
around 3000 for r g and b - yes 3000 (twasnt a typo)) Maybe ill attempt running
the uploading guantlet and send a more successful lightbulb pic to the hubcap
later.

gimme an A
gimme an M
gimme an I
gimme a  G
gimme an A

!!!
I sure hope this is easier in 2.0 Imagineeese.

##

Subject: AVID magazine
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 91 19:20:02 PST
From: [e-mail] (Steve Worley)

A couple of people have asked me about AVID magazine and what it is.

It is subtitled "The Amiga Video Journal", and it discusses different
aspects of Amiga video and 3D graphics. As a sample, the articles in the
lastest AVID:

  A Comdex report
  "Lighten up"-- Lightwave 3D information
  Deluxe Paint IV tips
  "From the Breadbox" Toaster news
  First look: Imagine 2.0
  Fall Foliage: a Draw 4D-Pro tutorial
  Review: Charts & Graphs
  First look: DCTV 1.1
  First look: Gold Disk's Video Director
  Review: Scenery Animator
  Review: Pixel 3D 2.0
  Review: Calligari 2
  Format considerations for single frame animations

and more.

I heartily recommend AVID to anyone interested in 3D graphics.

The magazine might be hard to find, but try your local dealer. You can
also also subscribe directly from AVID ($36 for 12 issues).

AVID Publications
415-112 N. Mary Avenue #207
Sunnyvale CA 94086

You can also call and order over the phone using a credit card:
408-252-0508.

-----------------------------------------

-Steve

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                       [e-mail]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

##

Subject: Re: AVID magazine
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 91 22:38:08 CST
From: [e-mail] (Steve W Davis)

> It is subtitled "The Amiga Video Journal", and it discusses different
> aspects of Amiga video and 3D graphics. As a sample, the articles in the
> lastest AVID:
>

IMHO, this is the best issue of AVID I have yet seen.  There is an enormous
quantity of useful information.  There were a couple places where articles
contradicted each other, and the segment about the "IBM Apple Merger" is
(to put it politely) innacurate.

This kind of magazine should be a WEEKLY.  Does the editor have an
email address?

I enjoy the editor's preference of quoting press releases verbatum.  I
wish someone would compile Amiga related press releases and publish a
newsletter containing ALL of them on a weekly basis.  This is, for
those of us constantly waiting for upgrades, probably the single largest
use of the net.community that I have not seen implemented yet.

>   A Comdex report

A fellow SYSOP in Salina KS went to the Comdex, but didn't mention anything
relayed in this article.  He was googling about Apple and IBM blazing
trails in this new thAng called "multimedia".   ARGH.

>   Deluxe Paint IV tips

This article really landed HARD on EA for releasing DP IV chock full of
bugs.  Unfortunately, I have found this program to be very similar to
PageStream -- Until you learn to use it, you have to expect a lot
of ... um ... surprises.

>   First look: Imagine 2.0

Hoo Ray.  Nice articles.  Is is just me or all of the buttons upside down
in the sample image?  This article answered most of my Q's about the program,
but here are a few more:

1)  Will Imagine 2.0 allow use of 8-bit grey scales as texture maps.
2)   "     "      "  allow preview of images for texture mapping.
3)   "     "      "  have that damned opening screen?
4)   "     "      "  preview windows show lines w/o faces, or axis position.

TRUE depth of field is still on my wish list.
Automated motion blur is still on my wish list.
The ability to pick a point from the preview window is on my wish list.
Support for some kind of compression on object files would also be
nice, as would the ability to load images from a pipeline from another
program. (e.g.  djpeg infile.jpg | {imagine pipeline})
Why the heck isn't there a backdrop image a la Lightwave?
Why no different reflection maps for individual objects?

Excuse me for nit picking.  The above would be nice features that would save
me considerable amounts of time.  I can certainly understand if the majority
of users have little use for these.

>   Review: Charts & Graphs

I have never seen a more glowing review of any Amiga product.
If anyone subscribing to the Imagine mailing list has this product, please
e-mail me.  I want to share your experiences with it before purchasing it.

>   Review: Pixel 3D 2.0

I have never seen a more glowing review of any Amiga product.

> I heartily recommend AVID to anyone interested in 3D graphics.
>

I find AVID 10,000 times more useful than the Turbo SIG bulletin.  BTW,
I stopped getting mine early.  Damned if I'll send them any more $.
This is not to say that I was disapointed with the group... I believe
there are benifits to joining... but it was little use to me considering
my geographic position (middle of Kansas), and financial status.


Stratocaster

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Internet: [e-mail]      | Steve Davis
 Fidonet: Steve Davis @ 1:295/3  |
     BBS: The Boarding House BBS | Video Animator
          9600 Baud, v.32/v.42   |
          (America) 913-827-0744 |  Have you hugged your Amiga today?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

##

Subject: Re:  A dusty path
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 91 10:40:47 EST
From: [e-mail] (Alan Price)

Sean Schur stated the solution of using 'align Y to path'. Though you
also mentioned that your car object's axis is placed at the front bumber.
Well, from my driving Imaginary car days, this would result in a car with
_extreme_ rear-wheel steering. Since the pivot point is the objects axis,
The tail of your car will swing as the car turns a corner. The best place
for the axis would be in the middle of the rear axle. Then have the front
wheels turn only as the rear axle approaches the curve in the path.
(This complicates things, as the whells must then be seperate objects from
the car group - the cycle editor can come into play here, however.)

AP.

##

Subject: Re: AVID magazine
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 91 10:52:46 EST
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

Steve Worley writes:
> I heartily recommend AVID to anyone interested in 3D graphics.

I second that reccomendation. It is especially useful if you do professional
video production using the Amiga.

Also, for you Toaster/LightWave owners out there, also check out Breadbox.
It is a publication similar to AVid geared specifically to the Video
Toaster. Every issue includes invaluable tricks and techniques as well
as reviews and news on all the latest Toaster, LightWave, and video related
products. And just as you will Steve's articles through out AVid, I will
be doing some writing for Bread Box. The editors, Kathy and Lee Stranahan,
can be reached at:
Bread Box
859 N. Hollywood Way
Suite 225
Burbank, CA 91505
[phone]

Tell them I sent ya :-)
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  |
| --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   |
|      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   |
|     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   |
|                                                                          |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

##

Subject: Re: Filament covers and yet even more Neon type lighting.
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 91 15:56:46 CST
From: telepro![e-mail] (James Hastings-Trew)

One thing to bear in mind when creating lit objects - only the object axis
will actually cast any light - not the surface of the object. One other
thing to bear in mind - if the light is set to cast shadows, and the axis
happens to be INSIDE the object, then no light will be cast at all - the
light will be trapped in the interior of the object.

If you want to create a convincing looking light filament, I suggest you
set it to be a bright object, and position a set of axis near the filament
to be the actual light sources.

If you want the actual glass of your object to appear more visibly, then do
not set the filter settings for the glass all the way to max - let the
glass slightly darken environment objects that are seen through it. Make
sure you have hardness set to full on, and make sure you have specular
settings all at max. Also, create your bulb in such a way that it actually
has an exterior AND interior surface - that is to say, the wall you create
before spinning out the bulb should have two surfaces and a (slight)
thickness. Do not create your bulb as a glass bubble. Once you get the
object constructed properly, give it a refraction index similar to glass
(around 1.3 to 1.5)

For a neon tube effect, you are going to have difficulties simulating the
"glow" of the tube, because, again, the surface of the object is not
actually the light source - only the axis is.

Your options here vary with the amount of rendering time you want to give
up. You could set up a large number of axis objects to follow the same path
as the tube, and set them to not cast shadows, and to be low intensity
light sources. You would then set them inside the tube object, and if you
had enough of them, they would cast a reasonably soft glow. This is a time
consuming, painstaking way of doing it, but gives reasonably good results.

Another way of doing it would involve image processing software such as
Image Master from Black Belt systems. You would create your neon tube as a
bright object of a very specific colour - a colour not found anywhere else
in your rendering. You would then (under Arexx control) get Image Master to
copy just that specific colour to a new buffer, recolour the tube to the
colour you wish to make the neon, and have that buffer recombine with the
original buffer. Then do an explode blur pass on the secondary buffer to
cause the "tube" to blur outwards. Then you would additively recombine that
buffer back with the original buffer as a "lightening" addition - it will
cause a "glow" to appear around the tube object.

-- Via DLG Pro v0.985b

--- James Hastings-Trew    telepro![e-mail] ---
->  If everyone in China jumped at the same time <-  subliminalmessagewith
->      would they bring back TWIN PEAKS?        <-  subtlebutdeviousplan.

##

Subject: JPEG to DCTV Convertor on Hubcap
Date:    Tue, 12 Nov 91 14:00 PST
From: Ivan I                               <[e-mail]>

Hopefully, I've placed JPEG2DCTV5.LZH & .TXT correctly on Hubcap in the
Incoming/Uploads directory.  I've only tested it on the test image, but it
worked fast & fine there.  The following is a portion of the Text file, w/o
all the updates enumerated.

Ivan
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

JPEG2DCTV Version 0.5
>>    This is a quick and dirty program to decompress JPEG compressed
images into a DCTV display buffer.  It takes about one minute to
decompress a 730 x 482 x 24 bit image to a full DCTV screen on an
Amiga 3000 with 'jpeg2dctv', and about 40 sec with 'jpeg2dctv.030'.
>>    After the program is finished decoding, you may save the DCTV
image by typing in a filename; 'jpeg2dctv' will save the image and
exit. If you do not want to save the image, just hit return when
prompted to exit 'jpeg2dctv'.

You _must_ install 'dctv.library' and 'ilbm.library' in your LIBS:
directory to use 'jpeg2dctv'.  'dctv.library' and 'ilbm.library' are
included in this archive, along with a test image named 'testimg.jpg'.

'dctv.library' is copyrighted (c) 1991 by Digital Creations, Inc.
'ilbm.library' is copyrighted (c) 1990 by Jeff Glatt and Dissidents.
The JPEG source code used in 'jpeg2dctv' is copyrighted (c) 1991  by
Thomas G. Lane, and is part of the Independent JPEG Group's software.
'jpeg2dctv'and 'jpeg2dctv.030' are copyrighted (c) 1991 by Benjamin
Rich.
This software is provided AS IS.

##

Subject: AmigaVision question
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 91 17:37:09 EST
From: [e-mail] (Alan Price)

I know, I know, what does this have to do with Imagine? Nothing. Well,
actually I'm using some Imagine-generated animations and pics in a
Amigavision application I'm working on.

Can anyone please give me a lead for a FTP site where there are
Amigavision applications to download? I'd like to check out a few to
compare "standards". I've heard there's a nice one floating around
somewhere that is about Eadward Muybridge. I'm working on one that
informs on the use of 16mm movie cameras, etc. If it comes out decent,
Id like to know a good place to post it.

Sorry for the departure from Imagine, but this is presently the only
list I am on. If anyone has suggestions concerning other lists, I would
be grateful. Thanks!

AP.

##

Subject: Another Imagine
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 91 17:06:04 CST
From: Wayne Haufler 283-4160 <[e-mail]>

I was reading a borrowed copy of the Nov. issue of SunWorld journal
(The Independent Journal of Sun and SPARC Systems)
and on page 86 in the new.products section is this notice:
----------------------
Imagine
"Imagine is a suite of geoprocessing and image processing tools that include
image Viewer, spatial and statistical modeling, advanced image processing,
attribute handling and cartographic-quality map composition, and a graphical
user interface.  It works on Sun workstations running X WIndows. ..."

The company is called ERDAS in Atlanta, GA.

I probably shouldn't be concerned, but the potential for name confusion
is there.  I would think the process of naming a product would prevent
duplicate naming, but maybe the product realms are far enough apart.
Just thought this info may be of some use to somebody.

            - Wayne Haufler

##

Subject: MediaPhile?
Date:    Thu, 14 Nov 91 00:03 PST
From: Ivan I                               <[e-mail]>

The new AmigaWorld makes mention, in the low-budget video article, of a program
 called MediaPhile from Interactive Microsystems.  It says it can sequentially
record animations to tape, which is understandable, but it also says that the
program is capable of recording frames of animation as the machine renders them
, with limited precision.  Would anyone familiar with the system care to explai
n this to me and describe the quality of the recording?  I've sent for info,
but this list is a bit more interactive than the mails.


Thanks a bunch!
     Ivan

##

Subject: Color question
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 91 13:50:16 PST
From: [e-mail] (Steve Worley)

Mike Izario wrote to me asking for a list of color values to use, especially
when you are entering textures and don't have sliders to manipulate. Here
is the list I use: it's based on a standard color list used in X windows. I
thought everyone might want to have a copy...

Enjoy!

-Steve

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                       [e-mail]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
 R   G   B              name
-----------             -----------
255 250 250        snow
248 248 255        ghost white
245 245 245        white smoke
220 220 220        gainsboro
255 250 240        floral white
253 245 230        old lace
250 240 230        linen
250 235 215        antique white
255 239 213        papaya whip
255 235 205        blanched almond
255 228 196        bisque
255 218 185        peach puff
255 222 173        navajo white
255 228 181        moccasin
255 248 220        cornsilk
255 255 240        ivory
255 250 205        lemon chiffon
255 245 238        seashell
240 255 240        honeydew
245 255 250        mint cream
240 255 255        azure
240 248 255        alice blue
230 230 250        lavender
255 240 245        lavender blush
255 228 225        misty rose
255 255 255        white
  0   0   0        black
 47  79  79        dark slate gray
105 105 105        dim gray
112 128 144        slate gray
119 136 153        light slate grey
192 192 192        grey
211 211 211        light grey
 25  25 112        midnight blue
  0   0 128        navy
  0   0 128        navy blue
100 149 237        cornflower blue
 72  61 139        dark slate blue
106  90 205        slate blue
123 104 238        medium slate blue
132 112 255        light slate blue
  0   0 205        medium blue
 65 105 225        royal blue
  0   0 255        blue
 30 144 255        dodger blue
  0 191 255        deep sky blue
135 206 235        sky blue
135 206 250        light sky blue
 70 130 180        steel blue
176 196 222        light steel blue
173 216 230        light blue
176 224 230        powder blue
175 238 238        pale turquoise
  0 206 209        dark turquoise
 72 209 204        medium turquoise
 64 224 208        turquoise
  0 255 255        cyan
224 255 255        light cyan
 95 158 160        cadet blue
102 205 170        medium aquamarine
127 255 212        aquamarine
  0 100   0        dark green
 85 107  47        dark olive green
143 188 143        dark sea green
 46 139  87        sea green
 60 179 113        medium sea green
 32 178 170        light sea green
152 251 152        pale green
  0 255 127        spring green
124 252   0        lawn green
  0 255   0        green
127 255   0        chartreuse
  0 250 154        medium spring green
173 255  47        green yellow
 50 205  50        lime green
154 205  50        yellow green
 34 139  34        forest green
107 142  35        olive drab
189 183 107        dark khaki
240 230 140        khaki
238 232 170        pale goldenrod
250 250 210        light goldenrod yellow
255 255 224        light yellow
255 255   0        yellow
255 215   0         gold
238 221 130        light goldenrod
218 165  32        goldenrod
114  83 250             cool worley
184 134  11        dark goldenrod
188 143 143        rosy brown
205  92  92        indian red
139  69  19        saddle brown
160  82  45        sienna
205 133  63        peru
222 184 135        burlywood
245 245 220        beige
245 222 179        wheat
244 164  96        sandy brown
210 180 140        tan
210 105  30        chocolate
178  34  34        firebrick
165  42  42        brown
233 150 122        dark salmon
250 128 114        salmon
255 160 122        light salmon
255 165   0        orange
255 140   0        dark orange
255 127  80        coral
240 128 128        light coral
255  99  71        tomato
255  69   0        orange red
255   0   0        red
255 105 180        hot pink
255  20 147        deep pink
255 192 203        pink
255 182 193        light pink
219 112 147        pale violet red
176  48  96        maroon
199  21 133        medium violet red
208  32 144        violet red
255   0 255        magenta
238 130 238        violet
221 160 221        plum
218 112 214        orchid
186  85 211        medium orchid
153  50 204        dark orchid
148   0 211        dark violet
138  43 226        blue violet
160  32 240        purple
147 112 219        medium purple
216 191 216        thistle

Variants:

 R   G   B              Name
-----------             -----
255 250 250        snow1
238 233 233        snow2
205 201 201        snow3
139 137 137        snow4
255 245 238        seashell1
238 229 222        seashell2
205 197 191        seashell3
139 134 130        seashell4
255 239 219        AntiqueWhite1
238 223 204        AntiqueWhite2
205 192 176        AntiqueWhite3
139 131 120        AntiqueWhite4
255 228 196        bisque1
238 213 183        bisque2
205 183 158        bisque3
139 125 107        bisque4
255 218 185        PeachPuff1
238 203 173        PeachPuff2
205 175 149        PeachPuff3
139 119 101        PeachPuff4
255 222 173        NavajoWhite1
238 207 161        NavajoWhite2
205 179 139        NavajoWhite3
139 121     94        NavajoWhite4
255 250 205        LemonChiffon1
238 233 191        LemonChiffon2
205 201 165        LemonChiffon3
139 137 112        LemonChiffon4
255 248 220        cornsilk1
238 232 205        cornsilk2
205 200 177        cornsilk3
139 136 120        cornsilk4
255 255 240        ivory1
238 238 224        ivory2
205 205 193        ivory3
139 139 131        ivory4
240 255 240        honeydew1
224 238 224        honeydew2
193 205 193        honeydew3
131 139 131        honeydew4
255 240 245        LavenderBlush1
238 224 229        LavenderBlush2
205 193 197        LavenderBlush3
139 131 134        LavenderBlush4
255 228 225        MistyRose1
238 213 210        MistyRose2
205 183 181        MistyRose3
139 125 123        MistyRose4
240 255 255        azure1
224 238 238        azure2
193 205 205        azure3
131 139 139        azure4
131 111 255        SlateBlue1
122 103 238        SlateBlue2
105  89 205        SlateBlue3
 71  60 139        SlateBlue4
 72 118 255        RoyalBlue1
 67 110 238        RoyalBlue2
 58  95 205        RoyalBlue3
 39  64 139        RoyalBlue4
  0   0 255        blue1
  0   0 238        blue2
  0   0 205        blue3
  0   0 139        blue4
 30 144 255        DodgerBlue1
 28 134 238        DodgerBlue2
 24 116 205        DodgerBlue3
 16  78 139        DodgerBlue4
 99 184 255        SteelBlue1
 92 172 238        SteelBlue2
 79 148 205        SteelBlue3
 54 100 139        SteelBlue4
  0 191 255        DeepSkyBlue1
  0 178 238        DeepSkyBlue2
  0 154 205        DeepSkyBlue3
  0 104 139        DeepSkyBlue4
135 206 255        SkyBlue1
126 192 238        SkyBlue2
108 166 205        SkyBlue3
 74 112 139        SkyBlue4
176 226 255        LightSkyBlue1
164 211 238        LightSkyBlue2
141 182 205        LightSkyBlue3
 96 123 139        LightSkyBlue4
198 226 255        SlateGray1
185 211 238        SlateGray2
159 182 205        SlateGray3
108 123 139        SlateGray4
202 225 255        LightSteelBlue1
188 210 238        LightSteelBlue2
162 181 205        LightSteelBlue3
110 123 139        LightSteelBlue4
191 239 255        LightBlue1
178 223 238        LightBlue2
154 192 205        LightBlue3
104 131 139        LightBlue4
224 255 255        LightCyan1
209 238 238        LightCyan2
180 205 205        LightCyan3
122 139 139        LightCyan4
187 255 255        PaleTurquoise1
174 238 238        PaleTurquoise2
150 205 205        PaleTurquoise3
102 139 139        PaleTurquoise4
152 245 255        CadetBlue1
142 229 238        CadetBlue2
122 197 205        CadetBlue3
 83 134 139        CadetBlue4
  0 245 255        turquoise1
  0 229 238        turquoise2
  0 197 205        turquoise3
  0 134 139        turquoise4
  0 255 255        cyan1
  0 238 238        cyan2
  0 205 205        cyan3
  0 139 139        cyan4
151 255 255        DarkSlateGray1
141 238 238        DarkSlateGray2
121 205 205        DarkSlateGray3
 82 139 139        DarkSlateGray4
127 255 212        aquamarine1
118 238 198        aquamarine2
102 205 170        aquamarine3
 69 139 116        aquamarine4
193 255 193        DarkSeaGreen1
180 238 180        DarkSeaGreen2
155 205 155        DarkSeaGreen3
105 139 105        DarkSeaGreen4
 84 255 159        SeaGreen1
 78 238 148        SeaGreen2
 67 205 128        SeaGreen3
 46 139     87        SeaGreen4
154 255 154        PaleGreen1
144 238 144        PaleGreen2
124 205 124        PaleGreen3
 84 139     84        PaleGreen4
  0 255 127        SpringGreen1
  0 238 118        SpringGreen2
  0 205 102        SpringGreen3
  0 139     69        SpringGreen4
  0 255      0        green1
  0 238      0        green2
  0 205      0        green3
  0 139      0        green4
127 255      0        chartreuse1
118 238      0        chartreuse2
102 205      0        chartreuse3
 69 139      0        chartreuse4
192 255     62        OliveDrab1
179 238     58        OliveDrab2
154 205     50        OliveDrab3
105 139     34        OliveDrab4
202 255 112        DarkOliveGreen1
188 238 104        DarkOliveGreen2
162 205     90        DarkOliveGreen3
110 139     61        DarkOliveGreen4
255 246 143        khaki1
238 230 133        khaki2
205 198 115        khaki3
139 134     78        khaki4
255 236 139        LightGoldenrod1
238 220 130        LightGoldenrod2
205 190 112        LightGoldenrod3
139 129     76        LightGoldenrod4
255 255 224        LightYellow1
238 238 209        LightYellow2
205 205 180        LightYellow3
139 139 122        LightYellow4
255 255      0        yellow1
238 238      0        yellow2
205 205      0        yellow3
139 139      0        yellow4
255 215      0        gold1
238 201      0        gold2
205 173      0        gold3
139 117      0        gold4
255 193     37        goldenrod1
238 180     34        goldenrod2
205 155     29        goldenrod3
139 105     20        goldenrod4
255 185     15        DarkGoldenrod1
238 173     14        DarkGoldenrod2
205 149     12        DarkGoldenrod3
139 101      8        DarkGoldenrod4
255 193 193        RosyBrown1
238 180 180        RosyBrown2
205 155 155        RosyBrown3
139 105 105        RosyBrown4
255 106 106        IndianRed1
238  99     99        IndianRed2
205  85     85        IndianRed3
139  58     58        IndianRed4
255 130     71        sienna1
238 121     66        sienna2
205 104     57        sienna3
139  71     38        sienna4
255 211 155        burlywood1
238 197 145        burlywood2
205 170 125        burlywood3
139 115     85        burlywood4
255 231 186        wheat1
238 216 174        wheat2
205 186 150        wheat3
139 126 102        wheat4
255 165     79        tan1
238 154     73        tan2
205 133     63        tan3
139  90     43        tan4
255 127     36        chocolate1
238 118     33        chocolate2
205 102     29        chocolate3
139  69     19        chocolate4
255  48     48        firebrick1
238  44     44        firebrick2
205  38     38        firebrick3
139  26     26        firebrick4
255  64     64        brown1
238  59     59        brown2
205  51     51        brown3
139  35     35        brown4
255 140 105        salmon1
238 130     98        salmon2
205 112     84        salmon3
139  76     57        salmon4
255 160 122        LightSalmon1
238 149 114        LightSalmon2
205 129     98        LightSalmon3
139  87     66        LightSalmon4
255 165      0        orange1
238 154      0        orange2
205 133      0        orange3
139  90      0        orange4
255 127      0        DarkOrange1
238 118      0        DarkOrange2
205 102      0        DarkOrange3
139  69      0        DarkOrange4
255 114     86        coral1
238 106     80        coral2
205  91     69        coral3
139  62     47        coral4
255  99     71        tomato1
238  92     66        tomato2
205  79     57        tomato3
139  54     38        tomato4
255  69      0        OrangeRed1
238  64      0        OrangeRed2
205  55      0        OrangeRed3
139  37      0        OrangeRed4
255   0      0        red1
238   0      0        red2
205   0      0        red3
139   0      0        red4
255  20 147        DeepPink1
238  18 137        DeepPink2
205  16 118        DeepPink3
139  10     80        DeepPink4
255 110 180        HotPink1
238 106 167        HotPink2
205  96 144        HotPink3
139  58  98        HotPink4
255 181 197        pink1
238 169 184        pink2
205 145 158        pink3
139  99 108        pink4
255 174 185        LightPink1
238 162 173        LightPink2
205 140 149        LightPink3
139  95 101        LightPink4
255 130 171        PaleVioletRed1
238 121 159        PaleVioletRed2
205 104 137        PaleVioletRed3
139  71     93        PaleVioletRed4
255  52 179        maroon1
238  48 167        maroon2
205  41 144        maroon3
139  28     98        maroon4
255  62 150        VioletRed1
238  58 140        VioletRed2
205  50 120        VioletRed3
139  34     82        VioletRed4
255   0 255        magenta1
238   0 238        magenta2
205   0 205        magenta3
139   0 139        magenta4
255 131 250        orchid1
238 122 233        orchid2
205 105 201        orchid3
139  71 137        orchid4
255 187 255        plum1
238 174 238        plum2
205 150 205        plum3
139 102 139        plum4
224 102 255        MediumOrchid1
209  95 238        MediumOrchid2
180  82 205        MediumOrchid3
122  55 139        MediumOrchid4
191  62 255        DarkOrchid1
178  58 238        DarkOrchid2
154  50 205        DarkOrchid3
104  34 139        DarkOrchid4
155  48 255        purple1
145  44 238        purple2
125  38 205        purple3
 85  26 139        purple4
171 130 255        MediumPurple1
159 121 238        MediumPurple2
137 104 205        MediumPurple3
 93  71 139        MediumPurple4
255 225 255        thistle1
238 210 238        thistle2
205 181 205        thistle3
139 123 139        thistle4
  0   0   0        grey0
  3   3   3        grey1
  5   5   5        grey2
 10  10  10         gray4
 13  13  13         gray5
 15  15  15         gray6
 18  18  18         gray7
 20  20  20         gray8
 23  23  23         gray9
 26  26  26         gray10
 28  28  28         gray11
 31  31  31         gray12
 33  33  33         gray13
 36  36  36         gray14
 38  38  38         gray15
 41  41  41         gray16
 43  43  43         gray17
 46  46  46         gray18
 48  48  48         gray19
 51  51  51         gray20
 54  54  54         gray21
 56  56  56         gray22
 59  59  59         gray23
 61  61  61         gray24
 64  64  64         gray25
 66  66  66         gray26
 69  69  69         gray27
 71  71  71         gray28
 74  74  74         gray29
 77  77  77         gray30
 79  79  79         gray31
 82  82  82         gray32
 84  84  84         gray33
 87  87  87         gray34
 89  89  89         gray35
 92  92  92         gray36
 94  94  94         gray37
 97  97  97         gray38
 99  99  99         gray39
102 102 102         gray40
105 105 105         gray41
107 107 107         gray42
110 110 110         gray43
112 112 112         gray44
115 115 115         gray45
117 117 117         gray46
120 120 120         gray47
122 122 122         gray48
125 125 125         gray49
127 127 127         gray50
130 130 130         gray51
133 133 133         gray52
135 135 135         gray53
138 138 138         gray54
140 140 140         gray55
143 143 143         gray56
145 145 145         gray57
148 148 148         gray58
150 150 150         gray59
153 153 153         gray60
156 156 156         gray61
158 158 158         gray62
161 161 161         gray63
163 163 163         gray64
166 166 166         gray65
168 168 168         gray66
171 171 171         gray67
173 173 173         gray68
176 176 176         gray69
179 179 179         gray70
181 181 181         gray71
184 184 184         gray72
186 186 186         gray73
189 189 189         gray74
191 191 191         gray75
194 194 194         gray76
196 196 196         gray77
199 199 199         gray78
201 201 201         gray79
204 204 204         gray80
207 207 207         gray81
209 209 209         gray82
212 212 212         gray83
214 214 214         gray84
217 217 217         gray85
219 219 219         gray86
222 222 222         gray87
224 224 224         gray88
227 227 227         gray89
229 229 229         gray90
232 232 232         gray91
235 235 235         gray92
237 237 237         gray93
240 240 240         gray94
242 242 242         gray95
245 245 245         gray96
247 247 247         gray97
250 250 250         gray98
252 252 252         gray99
255 255 255         gray100

##

Subject: Monitor Object!
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 91 18:00:36 CST
From: [e-mail] (Steve W Davis)

I'm working on a ray-tracing project that requires a computer monitor.
I have too left mouse buttons in the Detail editor, so I need a pointer
to an object.

I need a Commodore 1950 or other generic VGA style monitor.
It *** MUST *** have a curved front.  I *** WANT *** curvature distortion
on this monitor!  :)

Can someone help me out?  Thanks in advance.


Stratocaster

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Internet: [e-mail]      | Steve Davis
 Fidonet: Steve Davis @ 1:295/3  |
     BBS: The Boarding House BBS | Video Animator
          9600 Baud, v.32/v.42   |
          (America) 913-827-0744 |  Have you hugged your Amiga today?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

##

Subject: Re: MediaPhile
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 91 19:18:08 EST
From: [e-mail] (Kevin Goroway)

I wrote that software...

I worked with that company a while back...the idea of using their hardware
to do "almost" single frame recording was my idea...I wrote some crude
software, and they bought it.  It has been refined, but this is the basic
idea...

Their hardware can put your tape deck into, and out of "pause"...so,
you set it up to be in a record state, with pause on, then, when you
want to record a "few" frames, you send two quick pause messages...the
first takes it out of pause, the second re-pauses...

I originally wrote the software to work with Video-Scape 3d, which had
some info in the manual as to what message ports to set up, etc, so
you know when a finished frame is being displayed...they expanded it to
work with other software.

The hardware does a lot of other things (it knows the counter position,
and can control decks via infra-red, or direct now (I think), and it can
also "learn" infra-red commands...

You results in the "almost" single frame recording will vary depending on
your deck....I have a Sony Video 8 deck that gets a consistant 4 frames,
each shot...played back at the solid 2x speed, this yields 2 frames...which
is pretty damn good, for the price...some decks don't get consistant #s of
frames each time (yuck), and others don't get down as low as 4...

good luck!
-Kevin

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
| Worcester Polytechnic Institute   | "It happens sometimes, people just     |
| [e-mail]                  |   explode, natural causes."-Repo Man   |
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=

##

Subject: The monitor object...
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 91 18:32:57 CST
From: [e-mail] (Steve W Davis)

Reading my earlier post, it's clear that I didn't make myself clear.

I was hoping that someone would have a monitor object that they could
send to me (and in return get my "gratitude" :])...  Although I will
probably wind up designing one myself as soon as the new Imagine shows
up.


Stratocaster

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Internet: [e-mail]      | Steve Davis
 Fidonet: Steve Davis @ 1:295/3  |
     BBS: The Boarding House BBS | Video Animator
          9600 Baud, v.32/v.42   |
          (America) 913-827-0744 |  Have you hugged your Amiga today?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

##

Subject: Re: Monitor Object!
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 91 14:04:48 -0500
From: Udo K Schuermann <[e-mail]>

From: [e-mail] (Steve W Davis)
> I'm working on a ray-tracing project that requires a computer monitor.
> I have too left mouse buttons in the Detail editor, so I need a pointer
> to an object.
>
> I need a Commodore 1950 or other generic VGA style monitor.
> It *** MUST *** have a curved front.  I *** WANT *** curvature distortion
> on this monitor!  :)

I have an object made by some French guy a few years ago.  It is a complete
Amiga 1000, extremely detailed and, I believe, totals something like 900K.
The thing consists of dozens, if not hundreds of objects, grouped together,
including a monitor.

The monitor is a 1080 (as opposed to the 1950 Multisync), which includes
the bottom flap, the light, the bevels, CURVED SCREEN, the Amiga logo, etc.
There also is a mouse, the A1000 keyboard (with every single key, the
complete indentations on the keyboard, etc), and an ancient 1020 external
floppy drive.  All cables included :-)

I think I originally got this object off ab20.larc.nasa.gov, years ago, but
I suspect it is no longer there.  I could upload it to hubcap if anyone
wants me to.  Email me.

Oh, all the objects and subdirectories are in French.  It's not too
difficult to figure them out, though.

 ._.  Udo Schuermann     "They cut all the tall trees down/and poisoned the sky
 ( )  [e-mail]  and the sea/They've taken what's good from the ground
 Seeking virtual memory   /and left precious little for me." -- Midnight Oil

##

Subject: Re: MediaPhile
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 91 13:11:33 MST
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>


> Their hardware can put your tape deck into, and out of "pause"...so,
> you set it up to be in a record state, with pause on, then, when you
> want to record a "few" frames, you send two quick pause messages...the
> first takes it out of pause, the second re-pauses...

I've been thinking about a technique somewhat similar to that.  If one has
a good 4 head VCR, one can cleanly splice video segments together with no
noise between them.  An Ami with enough memory can play some smooth short
segments of animation.  My idea is to generate an Imagine (or VistaPro or
whatever) animation segment, play it in real time and record it to tape.
Now, that just gets you a short (10 to 20 second) segment.  But you can
cleanly splice the next segment in which you can also play from memory.
So basically you generate a video tape animation 10 to 20 seconds at a
time.  The more memory you have on the Ami, the longer the segments you
can record.  (RTAP might be another solution if you have a fast enough
disk to get a reasonably smooth frame rate).

The only trouble I see with this technique is possible synchronizatoin
problems.  For example, what happens if the Ami frame changes when the VCR
is in the middle of its own frame?  I don't know whether this will be a
problem.

I haven't tried this yet, but I will as soon as I get enough hardware to
do it.  (I need an A520 or something similar so I can record to tape).

    - steve ([e-mail])

##

Subject: Problems!
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 91 2:42:28 MET
From: Michael Franke <[e-mail]>

This is posted for a friend of mine:

   Problem in Imagine (old version):
   I made a sort of a complex group (something like a human figure) out
   of some objects in the detail editor, loaded the entire group in the
   cycle ed, animated it and saved it again. I still had to manipulate
   the attributes for rendering and therefore I reloaded the (now
   cycle-)object into the detail editor (as a group), changed the att-
   ributes and saved every single object again with its new attributes.
   I also saved the entire group. When I tried to reload that object
   again into the cycle ed, Imagine claimed that it can not load it,
   because it's not a (proper) animated object. Who can give me a hint
   how I can get rid of the cycle stuff in the object files? It would
   be quiet a lot of work to reconstruct all of it!

   Please give help, thanks, Nikolai Luckow of bildo academy berlin


      _____________________________________________________________________
     /                                                                    /
    /  We're here to give you a computer, not a religion.                /
   /  -- attributed to Bob Pariseau, at the introduction of the Amiga   /
  /               ------------------------------------                 /
 /           Michael Franke ([e-mail])             /
(____________________________________________________________________/

##

Subject: color list program
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 91 17:44:33 EST
From: Sandy Antunes <[e-mail]>

Hi!
Re: the color list recently reposted, I wrote a program a while
ago which basically is that list as an executable-- it opens a
windows (a lot like less), asks which color and which shade
you want ("color" = your basic red,blue,orange, etc) then
displays all the entries on the list that fall near that range,
i.e. if you want several things similar to "light orange" you
will find them.
  Trivial, yes, but also it saves having to remember where you
put the color list, since executables can be anywhere on the path.
  So, I'd like to know if it's worth putting on an ftp site or is
it just too useless?  Please send EMAIL (save our net! reduce clutter!)
if you'd like a copy...
                    sandy
----------------------------
[e-mail]     Sandy Antunes
"Lights!  Camera!  Action!  Timber!"

##

Subject: ColorBurst vs. other stuff
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 91 14:09:36 PST
From: [e-mail]

Rick Tillery drove up to my place in L.A. from his place in Sandy Eggo
yesterday and brought with him his ColorBurst and Syquest drive.
I own a DCTV and a HAM-E (with the extra "blur" switch :-) and I am
what I'd consider to be an expert user of both of them (this is not to
say that I prentend to have used all the functions of BB's IP software..
in fact I hardly ever use it at all, preferring ADPro Version 2). I've
also been playing with the DCTV 1.1 software which Digital Creations
gave to me some weeks ago (and which they promise is almost ready to
release.. but I digress...)

Well, we hooked up Rick's CB Box, taking both DCTV and HAM-E out of
the RGB food chain and we got a very purple display on my new 1084SD-1
monitor. After much farting around with connections, we determined that
Rick's special CB RGB cable has a short in it, and the Green RGB
gun was not being displayed at some times. Wiggling the cable and cursing
at it, we finally found a position in which we got a clean display.

Oh.. we also had to diddle with two adjustment screws on the CB box
itself. Apprently, in this respect, it's not all that different from
HAM-E, requiring adjustments to get rid of flashing pixels when its
moved from its "home" Amiga to someone else's. Anyway, after more
diddling and futzing, we got a very solid and clean display. Then on
to his syquest drive, for which it took us about an hour to concoct
a mountlist entry since I have a 2090a controller. After a few phone
calls to other Syquest/Amiga users, we made a mountlist entry that
worked just fine. Probably not optimum, but I'll post it if anyone wants it.

Hardware and software problems out of the way, we started to load
pictures into the CB. Here is where my jaw started slapping against
the floor.  I have seen probably hundreds upon hundres of DCTV and
HAM-E (both REG and HAME mode) pictures, and I've made many hundreds
of them myself. I've used Imagine, Scenery Animator, Vista Pro,
my Epson ES300-C 24 bit flatbed color scanner, ADPro, and many other
24-bit-capable software packages.  I am familiar with all this stuff.
I have learned to adjust my vision to DCTV's and HAM-E's inherent
weaknesses (and believe me, BOTH of them have SERIOUS weaknesses).

Well, to put it simply, the ColorBurst's display simply blew me away.
Neither DCTV nor HAM-E can hold a candle to it. Period. I wish you all
could have been here to see the pictures we displayed off Rick's drive
and the ones I created, with him sitting here, off my Scanner. It was
simply brilliant. The detail is razor sharp. The colors are vibrant,
and well-saturated. There's no artifacting, no false rainbows, no
smearing, no fringing, no color banding. Despite all the problems
of hooking it up and getting it adjusted and dicking around with the
syquest mountlist... the end result of seeing this little box display
these incredible pictures on my 1084SD-1 was worth every minute of it.

Rick was sitting at my side the whole time. He will confirm my
statements. I am not overstating my high impression of this thing.

Now... the CB has major problems and those are mostly with its
software.  The paint program is crap. The thing loads IFF24 files
VERY slowly, even from RAM. They can be converted into its own
proprietary "fast load" format with a bit of software that comes with
it but those files all grow to be about 1 Meg each, and then storage
becomes problematic.

ADPro doesn't support it, as it supports FC24, DCTV, HAM-E, and such,
so yyou're left to deal with CB's own software which leaves a LOT
to be desired.

Further, M.A.S.T. is now kaput, so future support for this box is
in limbo.  Gary Raynor, its Australian Developer, is now hard at work
on his own CB replacement, using similar technology and all-new
software (hopefully) tentatively to be called "OpalVision" which will
most likely be marketed in the USA by Centaur Software. When, and
how much, I do not know.  Creative Computers in L.A. (whose owner also
owns Centaur) still has a small pile of ColorBursts in stock
and they will surely be happy to sell you one. But good luck ever
getting better software for it than what comes with it.

However, I will make the following statement, as silly as it may sound..
in spite of its shortcomings, I would gladly, right now, this minute,
trade both my DCTV and HAM-E together for a ColorBurst as it exists
right now. Its display simply outclasses either of them by leaps and
bounds. When I scanned a pinup girl on my ES300-C, resolved it using
ADPro into 768x480, saved it as IFF24, and displayed it on the CBurst,
I said to rick... "this display is incredible!" Rick said to me "This
scanner is incredible." :-)

He had come to take his CB for granted. I had come to take my scanner
for granted.  It was, as they say, one of those "magic moments" for
both of us.

Regards, Harv

##

Subject: Y-Axis and Maps
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 91 16:56:46 CST
From: [e-mail] (Randy Carris)

I was under the impression that the Y-Axis had no effect on wrap X
and or Z brushmaps.  After some frustrating moments trying to get
decent results out of the altitude(bump) map, I discovered that this
axis does indeed have an effect.  It would seem that the size of the
Y value loosely conrolls bump height/depth.  If too small, you get
small bumps or none.  If too large you get a pixilated color map.  I
found the best results for my particular project had a Y axis approx
1/4 the radius of the sphere.  Can anyone explain this to me? I
didn't have time to exoperiment with other kkinds of maps, but
does this apply to wrap x flat z or visa versa?  I doubt it would work
the same for flat xy maps as it is nesessary to use Y to control the
depth of the map on the object NOT the bump depth.   Does
anyone have any thoughts on this?
     Also, I'm having trouble with filter maps too.  It would seem
there is a relationship between the Y axis of the map (again wrap
xz) and the value for filter in the attributes req.  I thought that a
filter map would override the filter setting in attributes.  I'm having
the asme problem someone had earlier when they couldn't get a
filter map to be completely transparent for white values of 255.  I'm
using Imag. 1.1 by the way.  I am useing a grayscale image with
white areas that are 255 on all guns.  I would expect these to
become completely transparent and the darker areas to be
translucent or opaque.  instead I get some clear areas with lots of
"milky" areas.  There are no solid areas, and not nearly as much
contrast.  Does the Y axis have some control here too?  If it does
could someone explain the relationship for me so I can expect
somewhat consistent results from the rendering?  (I know I'm
probably asking the impossible of a program like this, but For any
kind of efficient work, I do need to be able to predict me results.)

Whew... Thanks!
Randy Carris

##

Subject: testors paint
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 91 18:58:44 GMT-0500
From: Scott Matthew Krehbiel <[e-mail]>

I've been having some fun creating models in imagine, rather than
with glue and paint.  That is, I've been buying models of ships and
such, and measuring them and creating them in Imagine. I only
have one problem.  Exactly what is Gull Grey?  Or any of the other
strange colors that Testors paint uses?  Are these the same colors
that were posted earlier?
I looked through the list, and didn't see some of the strange names
that Testors uses, and I was wondering if anyone has some values for
those.  I've been thinking about buying the colors I need as I go, then
playing with color values until I get it to look right, but wanted
to see if this information is already available somewhere.

Thanks
Scott
[e-mail]

##

Subject: Monitor
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 91 16:28:40 PST
From: [e-mail] (Rob Borsari)

I just uploded my 1950 object (monitor not year) to hubcap in OBJECTS.
I just slapped it together by eyeballing my 1950 so it is not very true to
scale.  Let me know what you think of it if you use it.  -R-
[e-mail]  Rob Borsari  "Bourne to be wild"

##

Subject: Colors?
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 91 19:59:13 MST
From: [e-mail] (Ben Scott)

(hopefully this is the right way to submit messages to the list, here)

I'm a relative beginner in Imagine and am of course having troubles, I think
mainly because I tried to read the manual.  Anyhow, part of my problem is
that I'm having a real hard time getting predictable colors out of the
raytracer.  Today I managed to make some progress, in that I can get a few
colors out that I ask for, but not all.  I'm trying to get the border of a
3-D Logo to be red or reddish, but it keeps coming out blue or black even.
If I try to make it green, it comes ou;t green OK.  Other parts of the logo
can be red, and show up as red, so that throws out the theory that there's
no red light in the picture (what with my blue sky and green ground, it was
an idea anyway), and even so I have plenty of white lights, a medium gray
ambient light, and even a bright red light shining directly on it.  I've tried
setting colors in various combinations, setting the reflection to coincide
with the colors, even setting reflect to the opposite, and finally turning
it off again, no help.

(I'm having many other problems but this one is the current important one)

.                            <<<<Infinite K>>>>

--
.---------------------------------------------------------------------------.
|Ben Scott, professional goof-off and consultant at The Raster Image, Denver|
|Internet [e-mail], or call the Arvada 68K BBS at [phone]|
|--------------------------------------..-----------------------------------|
|"My brothers and sisters all hated me,||The Raster Image IS responsible for|
|'cause I was an only child!"--Weird Al||everything I say!  ** Amiga Power**|
`--------------------------------------'`-----------------------------------'

##

Subject: filter
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 91 20:18:24 PST
From: [e-mail] (Kevin Kodama)

well, i finally had a minor breakthru with filter maps-i was trying to make
a chain link fence with a filter map, and kept "seeing" the holes, instead of
their being completely clear. Also, i could see the edges of the plane i
had mapped my filter map onto, even though it was supposed to disappear.
i had specular off, filter set to 255, etc...to no avail.

also, i had the full value set to 255. still, i could see a distinct difference
between what was supposed to be clear and what was actually just sky...

i had been using dpaint for my 2 color filtermap. on a lark, i loaded the image
into black belts ip program, and refilled the white areas with a true 255,255,
255 white, and resaved the image. Voila, the transparent parts of the map were
completely transparent !

so, is dpaints white 16,16,16 not the same as a 24 bit 255,255,255 white ? or
does imagine not convert it properly when it converts the image into 24 bits?

curious kevin

##

Subject: mem fragmentation and Imagine
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 91 8:00:16 MST
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>

Has anyone else noticed memory fragmentation problems in Imagine?

Here's my situation: I have a 5 mb system, and I'm building a world
composed of various types of buildings.  I have an object which is a
"building-block" for buildings - I can stack them up, etc, to form larger
structures in the stage editor.  Each one is fairly small (about 5K on
disk).

My current world is composed of about 30 of these things, and also a few
other small objects.  If I load this world after a reboot, I have about
1.8 mb of free memory.  However, if I load the stage editor and simply
move objects around without loading any new ones, the system gets slower
and slower, and I have less and less free memory.  The end result is that
it takes me 30 to 45 seconds to move an object (on an '030), and I have
less than 500K of memory free.  If I keep going my machine eventually
crashes due to a lack of memory.

I can work around this particular problem by rebooting the machine every
15 minutes or so.  However, there is another effect of this which isn't so
easy to get around.  I'm trying to make a 500 frame animation of this
world.  I start the system making the animation.  On the first frame, it
loads in all the objects, and I have the 1.8 mb free.  Then the world is
"freed" and the process is repeated for the second frame.  However, for
each frame I have less and less memory, and my system runs completely out
on the 16th frame and won't process any more frames, requiring me to
reboot and start again.  This is annoying because I can't just let the
system sit unattended and make frames like I want to do.  (Oh, and each
frame gets slower and slower to generate: the 1st frame takes about 15
minutes, and the 15th takes over 1.5 hours.  After I reboot, the 16th is
down to 15 minutes again).

Anyone have any clever ideas for getting around this?  My world isn't all
_that_ big.  After I quit Imagine, I am down to 2.5 mb of free ram (versus
4.3 before I started), and my memory is fragmented into ~ 10K
non-contiguous pieces!!  It seems like I have enough memory (since I have
1.8 mb free the first time around), but I still can't make the animation
I'd like to due to these fragmentation problems.

    - steve

PS - I'm curious about whether this message will appear on the mailing
list - I'm not sure that the address I'm using is working properly.

##

Subject: ColorBurst vs. other stuff
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 91 08:50:12 EST
From: [e-mail] (Bob Lindabury, SysAdm)

rutgers!cup.portal.com!Harv writes:

> Well, to put it simply, the ColorBurst's display simply blew me away.
> Neither DCTV nor HAM-E can hold a candle to it. Period. I wish you all
> could have been here to see the pictures we displayed off Rick's drive
> and the ones I created, with him sitting here, off my Scanner. It was
> simply brilliant. The detail is razor sharp. The colors are vibrant,
> and well-saturated. There's no artifacting, no false rainbows, no
> smearing, no fringing, no color banding. Despite all the problems
> of hooking it up and getting it adjusted and dicking around with the
> syquest mountlist... the end result of seeing this little box display
> these incredible pictures on my 1084SD-1 was worth every minute of it.

Ok ok.  To be expected.  Have you seen and used the Firecracker?  I
think this would be more of an Apples & Apples type of comparison
since both boast 24-bit RGB displays.  If you converted that CB display
to NTSC, do you think it would be equal to DCTV or better or worse?

> Rick was sitting at my side the whole time. He will confirm my
> statements. I am not overstating my high impression of this thing.

I'm sure.  I felt the same way when I first used the DCTV and when I
first used the Ham-E and when I first used the Toaster.  Of course, I
had been spoiled previously because I own a TARGA.

> Now... the CB has major problems and those are mostly with its
> software.  The paint program is crap. The thing loads IFF24 files
> VERY slowly, even from RAM. They can be converted into its own
> proprietary "fast load" format with a bit of software that comes with
> it but those files all grow to be about 1 Meg each, and then storage
> becomes problematic.
>
> ADPro doesn't support it, as it supports FC24, DCTV, HAM-E, and such,
> so yyou're left to deal with CB's own software which leaves a LOT
> to be desired.
>
> Further, M.A.S.T. is now kaput, so future support for this box is
> in limbo.  Gary Raynor, its Australian Developer, is now hard at work
> on his own CB replacement, using similar technology and all-new
> software (hopefully) tentatively to be called "OpalVision" which will
> most likely be marketed in the USA by Centaur Software. When, and
> how much, I do not know.  Creative Computers in L.A. (whose owner also
> owns Centaur) still has a small pile of ColorBursts in stock
> and they will surely be happy to sell you one. But good luck ever
> getting better software for it than what comes with it.

I must say the above is an overwhelming list that surely tells me
*not* to consider this device as an addition to my assortment of
graphics tools.  Unless, of course, the price dropped to rock-bottom.

> However, I will make the following statement, as silly as it may sound..
> in spite of its shortcomings, I would gladly, right now, this minute,
> trade both my DCTV and HAM-E together for a ColorBurst as it exists
> right now. Its display simply outclasses either of them by leaps and
> bounds. When I scanned a pinup girl on my ES300-C, resolved it using
> ADPro into 768x480, saved it as IFF24, and displayed it on the CBurst,
> I said to rick... "this display is incredible!" Rick said to me "This
> scanner is incredible." :-)
>
> He had come to take his CB for granted. I had come to take my scanner
> for granted.  It was, as they say, one of those "magic moments" for
> both of us.

Yep.  I'm sure the display is incredible.  But no more incredible
than any true 24-bit RGB board, eh?   At this point in time there
only seems to be a single choice for a true 24-bit board with
realtime paint capabilities and RGB output.  That board seems to be
the Firecracker from Impulse.  I've used the GVP Impactvision and it
does *NOT* have realtime paint.  In fact, most of the software that
is available for it is buggy betaware.  If and when it ever comes to
fruition, it may be a usable tool, but as it stands now it's just so
much expensive junk.

It just seems so odd to me that you can obtain great 24-bit display
boards for the Mac for around $700 and that the TARGA boards have
been capturing and displaying RGB 24-bit and 16-bit images as well as
NTSC for the past 6 years and we *STILL* can't obtain a solution for
the Amiga that isn't a kludge or doesn't have some *serious*
limitations and bugs.

What is the problem folks??  I wish for the day when I can obtain a
board that is as simple to use and works as well as my TARGA 16 board
has for the past 6 years that plugs into my Amiga.

Maybe it's time to write TrueVision a letter.

> Regards, Harv

-- Bob

 The Graphics BBS  908/469-0049  "It's better than a sharp stick in the eye!"
 ============================================================================
  InterNet: [e-mail]                | Raven Enterprises
      UUCP: ...rutgers!bobsbox!graphics!bobl      | 25 Raven Avenue
    BitNet: bobl%graphics.rent.com@pucc           | Piscataway, NJ 08854
    Home #: 908/560-7353                          | 908/271-8878

##

Subject: Re:  testors paint
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 91 13:32:25 EST
From: [e-mail] (Brian Reynolds)

Scott,

Gull Grey is the common name for one of a series of grays that the USAF
uses on its fighter aircraft.  All of the colors used by the US
military are specified in a document called the Federal Standard 595 a
(FS595a for short).  If you look at the instructions for your model,
bottles of Polly S (and other brands) paint, documentation (the ... In
Action series from Squadron Signal, and the Detail & Scale series from
TAB (I think) are good starts) you will see a 5 or 6 digit number that
correctly specifies the color.  The numbers are set up with different
series for gloss, semi-gloss, and flat (the columns in the book), for
different colors (the sections of the book), and different shades (the
rows).  I believe 36xxx is flat gray.  The government will sell you a
book with a full set paint chips and the International Plastic
Modeler's Society sells a book that cross references FS595a with paints
from various manufacturers.  The IPMS normally has an advertisement in
Fine Scale Modeler for their book (it's not the same ad for
membership).  If you are interested in getting these books I can
probably look up more detailed information.  Fine Scale Modeler and the
IPMS publications are very good sources for detailed information on
model building.

Brian Reynolds "... a drone from sector 7G."
Fusion Systems Group
[e-mail] -or- ...!uupsi!fsg!reynolds

##

Subject: Filter probs
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 91 16:58:30 EST
From: [e-mail]

Indeed, DPaint's white (15,15,15) is really only 15*16=240, 240, 240 on
a 0-255 color scale. The alternative would be to make DPaint black
equal 15 on a 255 scale. That's even worse.

You can still use DPaint white, though! Use "Full scale value" to change the
"transparency level" to 240 instead of 255.

Good luck!

-Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

##

Subject: Re: Filter probs
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 91 01:56:09 -0500
From: Udo K Schuermann <[e-mail]>

[e-mail] writes:
> Indeed, DPaint's white (15,15,15) is really only 15*16=240, 240, 240 on
> a 0-255 color scale. The alternative would be to make DPaint black
> equal 15 on a 255 scale. That's even worse.

If Imagine used a scaling factor of 17 (16+1) for mapping 0-15 onto 0-255
the problem would have been eliminated entirely.  Of course, using a
transparency level of 240 (15*16) will take care of the problem, too, as
Steve said.

 ._.  Udo Schuermann     "So you cut all the tall trees down/and poisoned the
 ( )  [e-mail]  sky and the sea/You've taken what's good from the
 Seeking virtual memory   ground/and left precious little for me." Midnight Oil

##

Subject: Re: Stage editor is confused.
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 91 7:21:08 MST
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>

A few days ago I wrote:

> Either the stage editor or myself is confused.  I believe it is the
> stage editor, but I'm willing to listen to the possiblity of the
> alternative.

I've since figured out one of the problems I was having.  (Well, two
actually).  I thought I'd reply to myself in case any other new users were
having similar difficulties.

>   2. I have a single object in the stage editor, called, "BLDG".  I
>      manually place this object at 125,500,125.  I go into the "Action"
>      sub-editor and modify the position bar for this object.  I set a 100
>      frame count, and I have the object start and end at 125,500,125.
>      Just for grins, I also create a 101st frame at the same position.  In
>      my mind, the object should occupy 125,500,125 for all 100 frames.
>      However, when I quit out to the stage editor, the object is now at
>      some random location such as 87.34,129.25,191.30.  What is it doing

My problem there was that if you set a frame count of 100 on the first
"position" bar, the object's position gets "tweened" between the position
you set, and some other unknown spot.  The workaround is to set "1" as the
last frame.  Then the object seems to stay put OK.

Hope this helps somebody.  It had me confused for a bit!

   - steve

##

Subject: Re: Colors?
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 91 10:05:09 EST
From: [e-mail] (John J Humpal)

> I'm having a real hard time getting predictable colors out of the
> raytracer.  Today I managed to make some progress, in that I can get a few
> colors out that I ask for, but not all.  I'm trying to get the border of a
> 3-D Logo to be red or reddish, but it keeps coming out blue or black even.
> If I try to make it green, it comes ou;t green OK.

    I'm not sure I understand what's going on here.  Let's take a
look at a single letter (or whatever), in your logo.  Is the body of the
letter a separate object from the edge?  If it is, you shouldn't have a
problem using different colors.  If the body and edge are part of a single
object, you would need to enter Pick Faces, select all of the faces that
make up the edges of your object, then enter Attributes and change the color.
Remember to resave the entire object when you've finished.
    Hope that helps some.

-John

John J. Humpal -- [e-mail] -- short .sig, std. disclaimer

##

Subject: Stage editor is confused.
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 91 11:00:42 MST
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>

Either the stage editor or myself is confused.  I believe it is the
stage editor, but I'm willing to listen to the possiblity of the
alternative.

I have not end of problems with this thing.  Here are four.

  1. I load a bunch of objects into the stage editor, move them around,
     and save the changes.  At this point I can go out of the editor, come
     back in, load the stage, and everything is fine.  However, if I go
     into the detail editor and modify *any* of the objects used in that
     stage, when I re-enter the stage editor, the scene is destroyed.  By
     "destoyed", I mean that objects are missing, some are the wrong size,
     most have polygons missing, etc.  This is annoying, because every
     time I change an object in the scene, I have to enter the stage
     editor and completely recreate the scene, which takes a long time.

  2. I have a single object in the stage editor, called, "BLDG".  I
     manually place this object at 125,500,125.  I go into the "Action"
     sub-editor and modify the position bar for this object.  I set a 100
     frame count, and I have the object start and end at 125,500,125.
     Just for grins, I also create a 101st frame at the same position.  In
     my mind, the object should occupy 125,500,125 for all 100 frames.
     However, when I quit out to the stage editor, the object is now at
     some random location such as 87.34,129.25,191.30.  What is it doing
     there?  It stays there for all 100 frames.  I can manually put it
     back where it should be, but of course the next time I quit the stage
     editor it goes back to the odd place.  I'm confused.

  3. A similar effect to the above occurs with the "size" bar.  I can set
     it to the default of, say, 32x32x32 for my object for 100 frames.
     When I exit to the stage editor, the size of my object has now become
     something odd like 52x191x41.  Why?

  4. I set "align to path" for the alignment bar of the camera.  It sort
     of aligns to my path, but it pays no obvious attention to the "Keep Y
     Horizontal" box that I have set.  The Y axis is tilted about 45
     degrees when I go back to the stage editor.  I can level it
     horizontally through the transformation menu, but I can't get it to
     stay that way.  I'd rather not have all my animations tilted 45
     degrees!  What's up?

The "size" and "position" problems don't seem to happen with the
orientation of the object even if I do the same thing with that bar.

Help!?!  I got this software to do animations, but all these things are
effectively preventing me from doing so.

   - steve ([e-mail])

##

Subject: Re:  mem fragmentation and Imagine
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 91 13:41:01 EST
From: [e-mail] (Alan Price)

I have an A3000/25/50 with 2MB chip and 4MB fast ram. I always have a
problem similar to the one you mention about fragmentation during
repeated use of the stage editor and moving back and forth between it
and the detail editor. Once I have finished arranging and testing, I
usually reboot before the final 'run'.

However, I have never run into the problem you mention about having
memory reduced as the renderer moves on to the next consecutive frames.
This includes scenes which bring my RAM to down below 1MB for each image,
but I always get it back before the start of the next. This has worked on
sequences 100 frames long.

The only thing I can think of, is in the case of an animation involving
a moving camera. Frame 1 may render quickly, but as the camera has moved
further into the 'set', with a variety of possible changes (a reflective
or refracting object filling a larger area of the image, for example) may
cause a drastic change in the time it takes to render. I had one animation
of the camera swinging around a figure seated at a table and was surprised
to find that the render time varied dramatically soley due to the angle at
which the camera was looking at things.

I know that probably does'nt help much. I just thought I'd make an
observation. I'm curious to know if anyone else has this problem.

AP.

##

Subject: Mem Fragmentation
Date:    Tue, 19 Nov 91 14:36 EST
From: "Marc Rifkin" <[e-mail]>

With respect to memory, I have noticed (for what it's worth) that
Imagine seems to dynamically allocate memory each frame depending
on its world size and then actually starts to give back memory towards
the end of each frame.

Marc Rifkin
Integrative Technologies Lab, Penn State University
5F Mitchell Building, University Park, PA 16802
814-863-8062 or for you normal people, [e-mail]
"Say, that's a nice bike!"

##

Subject: Camo Causing Crashes?
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 91 16:32:01 PST
From: Daryl T. Bartley <[e-mail]>

Just a quick question about the camo texture. It keeps crashing my machine!
And while many many things I do in Imagine do this, I didn't expect it from a
texture! Is there some odd thing about camo that causes this? Every time I have
tried to use it, no matter how simple the object, it bought the farm. Anyone
have ideas as to why? I'm running on a (insane laughter, straightjacket being
tightened) 1 meg 2000. Any help is appreciated.


Daryl Bartley
[e-mail]

##

Subject: Camo bug on 68000
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 91 18:37:42 -0800
From: [e-mail] ( James McInnis)

Daryl Bartley asks...

>Just a quick question about the camo texture. It keeps crashing my machine!

 I had this problem with camo on my stock 68000 Amiga 1000. It seems that the
first version of camo crashed on the 68000, I ran it succesfully on a 68030
A 2000.

 I sent the disk back to Impulse, explaining the problem, and they quickly
sent a replacement that fixed the problem. Of course, now I have a 3000, so
it doesn't matter! So see about getting the camo texture upgraded or wait for
2.0 (which, one hopes, will have the fix.)

Jim

##

Subject: Just wondering
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 91 21:48:22 CST
From: [e-mail] (Michael Linton)

How can I put Imagine animations to a frame accurate VCR.  What I mean is so
that I don't have to load the entire anim into ram first, then play it back
while recording.  What kinds of software/hardware is required to control the
playback etc.  Is it required that I render an animation in ANIM format, or
can it be done in Imagine format.  Just curious.

Michael.


--- (Michael Linton) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
E-mail: [e-mail]
system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8

##

Subject: Re: Camo bug on 68000
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 91 22:25:54 PST
From: Daryl T. Bartley <[e-mail]>

Aha! Thanks for the help. It was driving me crazy! I think I'll try and wait
for 2.0, and perhaps some hardware upgrades! :)

Thanks again.

Also, while I'm posting to the list, I might as well ask another question. Is
there any way to get a pseudo-acceptable water effect using disturb? I know the
best way is to use a brushmap, but with my teeny weenie system, that's not very
easy. So, is there any way to get CLOSE to a watery surface?

Daryl Bartley
[e-mail]

##

Subject: Cylinder Bending
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 91 09:42:51 CST
From: Wayne Haufler 283-4160 <[e-mail]>

Hello,

Its been awhile since I tried this, so I can't describe what I did in
detail, but I had problems trying to bend a basically cylindrical
object in an arch about 30 degrees by conforming it to a sphere or a
cylinder.  I was trying to 'arch the back' of a space shuttle object.
I tried a few different locations of the object's axis, but
got really strange results.

Has anybody tried to do anything similar, or has some experience with
the 'Conform to Cylinder' feature?  I may try some more tests and get
back with more detailed info.  Thank you in advance.


         __         Wayne A. Haufler   [Christian/SW Engineer/XLib'er/Amigan]
\\ /\\ /\\ //_       [e-mail]          MDSSC - Houston
 \/--\// \//__       Hobby:"Exploring the Use of Computer Graphics and
     //                     Animations To Support Christian Endeavors"

##

Subject: Single frame control Animation
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 91 12:26:10 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)

    In regards to the message about single frame control animation:


    It sounds like you want to merely append many small animations
into one long one.  If this is the case, then all you need is really a
frame accurate VCR ($$$) and some sort of 'genlock' to get the video
signal out of your amiga.  You may be able to obtain a cable to take the
23 pin video out from the amiga, and into something which takes RGB.

    I currently, have a firecracker, and the break out cable which
takes a DB23 pin connector on one end, and then has 4 BNC's on the
other, seperate RED, GREEN and BLUE plus SYNC.   The point is, the cable
also attaches to the back of my A3000, so I can get video directly out
of it.

    One problem: not many VCR's take RGB, (i don't have one.)
However, I recently heard ofthe commodore A520.  This takes the 23 pin,
and instead of making it into RGB, makes it into standard composite
video, (RCA cable in this case).

    So, if you want to run animations onto to tape, you could merely
put down the first part, then delete it from you Amiga, and then set the
vcr to start at the point you want, and cue up the animation.  As for
triggering it, I am not sure how.  I dont't think Imagine takes a GPI
trigger.  But here is another idea.  Use the imagine format, and have it
play about 20 frames of any frame over and over.  This  way when it
starts, you can press the spacebar to stop it, before it the real
animation starts.  Now right after those 20 frames, have it play another
frame, ie the first frame of the animation.  This will enable you to
press spacebar until exactly the first frame is on the screen.  Now set
your VCR rolling, and when you want, press F1 or F2 and so on depending
on the speed you wish the animation to run at.

    I have to admit, there is a high chance of error, but with a
frame capable VCR, if make a mistake, you should be ablee to only have
to slice off a frame to go back to it again at the most, really you
should be able to set it to start at the frame you messed up on.

    If you want to do true single frame recording though (usually
done only with 24 bit), you'll need a single frame controller ($$$$).
The cheapest I can think of is the Personal Single Frame control.
However, the preffered method, (I am wait for price drops) is to use a
re-writable optical video disk.  (I'll probablbe waiting several
years!).

    Hope this helped.  I have yet to do single frame yet  (my
firecracker took up the last of my funds), but I have been thinking of
makeing a long animation also, and using the technique you were asking
about.  If I ever get around to it, I'll let you know what happens.

                Mike C.
                [e-mail]

##

Subject: Imagine List now Online on Portal
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 91 13:11:17 EST
From: [e-mail]

For those of you who read this mailing list from Portal, you no longer
need to tie up your mailbox any longer; the list is fed directly into
its own message base in the Amiga mesages section. I am removing all
current Portal Email addresses from the list; I would assume most of
you will find it easier to read postings from the message base. If,
for some reason, you still want Email piped in, please mail me and I'll
reinclude you.

This only applies to the people who read the list from the Portal
on-line services BBS- the rest of you will be unaffected.

-Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

##

Subject: Firecracker 24, opinions
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 91 18:46:18 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)

    The first thing I can say about my impressions of the
firecracker are WOW!

    My dad has a toaster, and there is a SIGNIFICANT difference in
the quality of the images i see.

    Note: part of this may be due to the fact the the toaster
outputs composite, while the firecracker seperate RGB which is a much
purer and cleaner signal.  In fact, I think it's the highest quality
signal available.

    I am using a Panasonic RGB monitor to view the images, and so I
keep my C 1950 which doesn't flicker.  2 monitors is a great way to go
if you can afford it, but  obviously you don't have to, since the
firecracker itself always outputs the normal amiga video as a loop
through.

    With my setup, In workbench, I notice alot of flicker on my
panasonic, from the firecracker.  I would beleive then, that if you were
to simply use one monitor, (it couldn't be the 1950, it would have to
take the 23 pin cable , 15khz) you would get flicker.  My advice, try to
obtain a second monitor.

    As for the basic quality, the images it shows are clean and
crisp.  Most of the work I do  uses the 768x482 size format, though it
can take 1024x768.  Impulse reccomend the lower resolution image, and in
my experience the higher 1024 resolution doesn't really gain any extra
quality.

    Light 24 is a superb program, and the Renderpaint feature alone
makes it worth buying the firecracker.  It handles gradients smoothly,
and easily.  I use it often to render an object I am working on to see
how it looks in 24 bit, since it will render faster in the paint program
alone, than if you were to render it in imagine.

    The price i beleive is around $1000 still from mail order, but
you should be able to get them down a little lower.

    Note: Unfortunately, the "use firecracker 24" in imagine has yet
to be implemented, even as of version 1.1, but 2.0 should support it for
direct viewing of rendered images.  Right  now, you have to go into
light 24 to view a picture.

    One more thing, if you own Vista Pro, you should see the images
in 24 bit displayed on the firecracker.  I wasn't very impressed when I
bought Vista, but the HAM and Hires images don't do it justice.
Needless to say, very good looking in 24 bit.

    All in all, the firecracker is a great card, and I am very happy
with it.  It should be the second to best quality card out.  The only one
better than it that I have read about, is a new card called the
Rembrant, I think it's by progressive peripherals.  But it will cost
about 4 times as much I beleive.  And as for the GVP 24, I really can't
say how good it is, but once again, I think the firecracker is cheaper.

    If you have any technical questions, I would recommend you call
Impulse, I'm sure they would be glad to help you.

                    Mike Comet
                    [e-mail]

##

Subject: Single-frame for LESS
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 91 19:09:40 EST
From: [e-mail] (Alan Price)

Howdy. While there's discussion going on about single-frame recording,
I would like to throw in my two cents. I'm going to describe a method
which I like to think could be considered as 'beating the system', or
the 'analog-hacker rig-it-anyway-you-can' system. I've used this method
to create an 8.5 minute animated film which has been doing pretty well
at various film/video festivals. Anyway, if you are interested in a way
to get your animations out to a broadcast quality medium for a hardware
cost of $500 or less, read on.

NOTE: This note turned out rather long. I consider it worthwhile information,
I hope you do too. I am attempting only to suggest a legitimate alternative
to the expensive hardware costs of single-frame recording.

Presently, the cheapest video deck that can do true single-frame accurate
recording is a S-VHS JVC deck that sells for about $7000 (with TimeCode
card). As previously mentioned, the cheapest software controller for this
deck would be the Personal SFC for about $500. This is way beyond the
range for most of us working as individual artists.

A primitive work-around is to compile anims on your Amiga, play them
back through an encoder onto a video recorder in lots of chunks, either
making your best-bet at pausing the deck on and off to make seamless
'edits' (not very likely), or to rent time on a video editing system some-
where, or go to your local school's video media department and haggle for
access to one, in order to edit all these 'chunks' together. In this case,
you are at the mercy of the quality of your encoder/genlock as well as
the quality of the VCR you are recording on. (Same with the latter: if
you have a $7K VCR and a $30 A520, what's the use?) This is OK for playing
around or testing motion, but for any large scale or serious projects,
it's rather futile.

So.... my solution? GO TO FILM!!!!

Yes, film. 16mm color negative will give you better color saturation,
better contrast ratio, better gamma level, better resolution, etc, than
ANY video recorder or encoder can provide. The only competition would be
if you could use 1" video, and even that would only be in terms of
resolution, NOT color saturation or contrast. As you may know, most
quality television commercial productions are shot in film for that reason.
(35mm AND 16mm.)

And what's more, there's nothing quite as exciting as when you get your
film back from processing and project it on a 12 FOOT WIDE SCREEN!

I am NOT talking about using a 'film recorder'. Those too, are very
expensive devices. I'm talking about setting up a 16mm camera with a
nice lens in front of your RGB monitor in a darkened room.

Next question: Isn't film ridiculously expensive? Answer: NO, 3 minutes of
film stock is by far more expensive than 3 minutes of video tape, BUT
16mm film equipment is CHEAP compared to video equipment. You can buy
a used 16mm Bolex camera for as low as 250 dollars (Though I have known
people to buy Bolex cameras for as little as $25 at yard sales or flea
markets. You might even ask your grand-parents if there's one in the attic.)
If you buy a Bolex new from a commercial dealer, you'll pay more like
$1500. But that's still cheap compared to video equipment. Beside, you can
run around and shoot live-action movies with the thing, too!
A Bolex can hold a 100' roll of film internally, which is 3 minutes worth.
A 100' roll of Kodak color negative film costs about 25 dollars, and about
30 dollars to process AND get a positive print of.

Obviously, once you have your animation on film, you can get it transferred
to video at various levels of quality. Do it at your local video store for
20 bucks or so, or pay a film/video lab to professionally transfer it
to the video format of your choice with a flying-spot laser system such
as a Rank-Cintel. Doing it this way will make it look like you mastered
on 1" or D2, or better.

Another advantage to note is that color negative film has a huge latitude
for exposure and color-correction when the lab prints it for you. Also,
film has a longer shelf-life than video tape. (Imagine the awful feeling
one gets in the gut when you look at the video tape that the computer just
spent five days rendering to, and there's a big 'drop-out' right in the
middle of it. This will NEVER happen to film.)

Here's what I've set up: I have written an ARexx script that runs as a
background task while Imagine is busy rendering frames. After waiting an
interval estimating the length it takes to render each frame, the ARexx
script checks to see if the pic file exists yet, and if so, uses a display
program to bring the pic up on screen. It then sends a message to the
serial port, which sends one of the pins high, thus triggering a relay
I wired up using Radio Shack parts, which in turn triggers the motor drive
attached to the Bolex to shoot 1 or 2 frames (or more, depending)
(The motor drive is something I also built myself, not requiring much
work and only about $40. Motor drives manufactured for the Bolex can be
bought commercially.) The Arexx script then systematically deletes the
pic file in order to avoid filling up my measly 50MB drive.

This method relies on only one thing for 'top' quality, and that's how
good your RGB monitor's display is. This obviously would include display
boards output too, such as DCTV, HAM-E, FC24, etc.

Most Bolex cameras have a nice set of lenses. (If you look for a used
package, make sure it has a lens or lenses, if not, you could wind up
paying just as much or more than you paid for the camera to buy an
individual lens.) A 25mm lens is the 'standard' focal length lens for
16mm. A 50mm is good for shooting your monitor because it will help
'flatten' out the curvature of the screen. Avoid glare and reflections
by shrouding the camera/monitor set-up with black-out cloth, or just
render during the night and go to sleep happy. Since the camera and film
just sits still if you interrupt the process for any reason, you'll be
ready to pick right up again at any time. With video, you have to always
rely on Time-code accuracy, and the deck has to sit in pause and search,
and do pre-rolls, all things that can be troublesome until you've thoroughly
sunk your life savings or your boss's budget into it.

I have this system _working_. I also just did some rendering with a friend
using his DCTV. It looked real nice running at 24 frames per second on a
big screen. (Though shooting off an RGB monitoris considerably sharper.)
If anyone would like more information on this techinique,
send me a note, I'll show you my ARexx script and how to wire the relay to
the serial port (with proper disclaimers, ofcourse:) and any other info
you might want, like where to start looking for cameras, etc.
If anyone has doubts about the quality, send me a SASE envelope and I'll
send you a section of 'workprint' of my last film. You could look at it
with a slide projector, etc. I've made three prints of the film itself,
and have not professionally transferred it to video. Though I do have it
on VHS by using an inexpensive 'film-chain'. Send me a blank SASE VHS
tape and I'll give you a copy of the film.

I hope this helps some of you budding animators who've got the desire
but not the 'goods'.

##

Subject: (Re) Firecracker 24, opinions
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 91 19:13:08 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Chihtsung Jeffrey Lin)

        Just wondering. Can Firecracker do animations in 24-bit?

                                          Jeff :-)

##

Subject: Memory use for brushmaps
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 91 20:31:45 MST
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>

Question for you Imagine gurus:  lets say I have an object to which
I attach a brushmap.  Then I load 10 instances of the object into
the stage editor.  When I render this scene, does Imagine load the same
brushmap 10 times (as it does with the object definition)?  If so, that
could get to be very memory intensive very quickly.  Is there any way
to have it use the same brushmap data?

I wish one could do that for objects also.  I often load an object into
the stage editor many times and position each one differently.  If
Imagine had the ability to load the definition once and just store
the positions and orientations for each new instances, that would
save a bunch of memory in some cases.

   - steve

##

Subject: Rendering times with an '040?
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 91 20:27:10 MST
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>

Has anyone run Imagine with one of the Progressive 68040 cards?
I'd be curious to find out how much it improves rendering times.

Imagine is fairly speedy now on my 68030, but supposedly an '040 at 24 mhz
has almost 4 times the floating point performance of a 68030 at the same
clock speed.  Since ImagineFP is, I assume, heavily floating point
intensive, the '040 should speed things up nicely.  Anyone have any
specific numbers for Imagine times?

One nice thing about these cards is the price: Go Amiga has the 2000
version for $1595, which is only $200 higher than a 33 mhz '030.  It seems
like anyone looking at an '030 upgrade might want to consider the '040.

   - steve

##

Subject: Firecracker 24 & Animation :(
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 91 09:44:39 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)

    The only 24 bit display device that runs on the amiga that can
do animations in real time (that i know of) is DCTV.

    However, I recently read, that one would be better off sticking
to the higher quality device (ie firecracker) and upgrading to more
equipment later, (and in the meantime useing say,production houses).

    The firecracker can display 24 bit images, but nowhere near the
speed to make an animation.  It usually takes several seconds to load up
a pic in Light 24.  So, to animate with it, you'll need to single frame
control, or use the film technique as described above. (interesting
solution).

                Mike C.
                [e-mail]

##

Subject: Re: Firecracker 24 & Animation :(
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 91 10:26:48 EST
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

>     The only 24 bit display device that runs on the amiga that can
> do animations in real time (that i know of) is DCTV.

While I have not seen it myself, the Rambrandt board from Progressive
Peripherals is supposedly capable of 24bit animation to some degree.
I am uncertain how high a resolution can be used and still obtain 30 fps,
but I believe 320x200 is no problem. Of course this board is a real graphics
board whereas the Firecracker is merely a display device (a dumb frame
buffer as we call them in the industry). The Rambrandt uses a 40MHz 34020,
an optional 40 MFLOP 34082 FPU, and up to 8MB of RAM. Of course all this
power doesn't come cheap....around $4K.
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  |
| --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   |
|      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   |
|     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   |
|                                                                          |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

##

Subject: Re: Camo bug on 68000
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 91 22:20:09 CST
From: telepro![e-mail] (James Hastings-Trew)

In a message dated Wed 20 Nov 91 01:06, Daryl T. Bartley <[e-mail]
wrote:

 DTB> Aha! Thanks for the help. It was driving me crazy! I think I'll try
 DTB> and wait
 DTB> for 2.0, and perhaps some hardware upgrades! :)

 DTB> Thanks again.

 DTB> Also, while I'm posting to the list, I might as well ask another
 DTB> question. Is
 DTB> there any way to get a pseudo-acceptable water effect using disturb?
 DTB> I know the
 DTB> best way is to use a brushmap, but with my teeny weenie system,
 DTB> that's not very
 DTB> easy. So, is there any way to get CLOSE to a watery surface?

Yes. Put 3 disturb textures on the surface at different wavelengths,
amplitudes and orientations (rotations) and you should get acceptable water
effects. I have put disturb textures on surfaces and morphed from one
object to another. I had the disturb textures in different positions and
orientations, and transposed them on the surface by 2X the wavelength on
the Y axis (local) on the second object, and got good moving water surfaces
that way.


-- Via DLG Pro v0.985b

--- James Hastings-Trew    telepro![e-mail] ---
->  If everyone in China jumped at the same time <-  subliminalmessagewith
->      would they bring back TWIN PEAKS?        <-  subtlebutdeviousplan.

##

Subject: More single-framing to film
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 91 17:26:45 EST
From: [e-mail] (Alan Price)

Lawrence Kesteloot, President of Virginia Tech SigGraph,
([e-mail]) received the posting I made about single-
frame recording to film through channels other than this list. He asked
some questions that help clarify a few matters. Others on this list
have expressed interest in this, and I am preparing a document that
illustrates my set-up. If anyone else wants a copy when it's done, I'll
be glad to send it. Meanwhile, here's the response to Lawrence's note:

Lawrence,
I'll attempt to answer your questions below:

> The question I'd like to ask is whether or not you got any problems
> with the 30 frames a second/24 frames a second conflict.

This, in it's most strict sense, is not a problem. When transferring
your finished film to video, a professional service uses a system that
'spreads' the frame information accurately across the difference in
video frames. If transferring on a less expensive film-chain, like your
local photo-store's, a special five-bladed shutter projector is used
to erradicate any apparent 'flicker' caused by phase-shift between the
two frame-rates.

HOWEVER, if you are creating an animtion that is designed to be
frame-accurate with an existing sound-track and you have meticulously
counted frames in terms of 30 fps (and using the 'elapsed time'
indicator in Imagine's menu bar, which I wish could be user-defined.)
then you should shoot the animation to film at the same 30 fps.
Most film productions that know they are shooting film for TV shoot
at 30 fps for the best possible compatability. This would only apply
if your end product is to be on VIDEO only. If you do want the film
to work for theatrical screenings, then compose or readjust your
soundtrack to 24 SMPTE time code in the case of Midi stuff, or use
the traditional method of film sound-work and transfer the sound to
16mm audio stock and make your frame-count on it.

>I did a bunch of computer animations (mostly ray-traced) with 8mm
>film (running 18 frames a second), and the retrace was so bad I
>could hardly see the animations properly.  I could actually look
>at the film itself and see thick black lines through the picture.

The 'retrace' you mention is the scan rate of NTSC video. Video runs
at 30fps, (to be exact: 29.97 fps) but the scan rate is actually
60Hz. Each video frame is broken into two 'fields' (ala 'interlace')
where every other line of a total of 525 is drawn left-to-right down
the screen and the persistence of the phosphours (sp) of the monitor
retains the first set of lines while the alternate set is being scanned.
When shooting film of a TV set at any speed OTHER than an exact 29.97
frames per second will result in some kind 'phase-shift' allowing the
film to record the vertical blanking signal of the video frames, first
in one position, then slightly in another, giving the 'rolling bar' look.
Or the speed could be so far off that it's just a wild flicker.
For people with a camera that is crystal-controlled to run at EXACTLY
24 fps, it is recommended to use a shutter angle of 155 degress for
best results. In other words, it's very tough to do.

One way I've acheived succesful results with a film camera shooting
computer animation as it plays on the screen, is to slow the playback
speed of the animation down to 1/4 of the original, then run the
camera at 6 fps rather than 24. A shutter speed at 24fps was 1/48 sec.,
so at 6fps the shutter speed is 1/12 sec. 1/12 sec allows the scanline
to go by four times, resulting in film clear of any 'roll bars'. Playing
the film back at 24fps ofcourse brings the animation back up to its
proper speed. The same formula could be applied to your S8 camera.

This confirms your observation:

>I also took a bunch of 35mm still photographs, and found that any
>shutter opening less than about 1/8th of a second would cause problems
>with the retrace. ..Did you set the shutter speed to anything?

The optimum shutter speed for shooting an exposure of your monitor
would be a full second. This allows the scan to complete a total of
60 times. It would also allow you to use a low ASA film stock which
would result in a very fine-grain, high-res image. When doing the
single frame approach I outlined, you simply adjust the motor-drive
to expose each frame accordingly. I have used 1/5 sec and 1 full second
exposures (on different systems) and gotten very good results.

>And, out of curiosity, how did you do the motor shutter release?
>I built half of one last year to set off my 8mm, but could not find
>a motor strong enough to actually push the shutter release cable
>(my 8mm camera had no other way of taking a frame).

The Bolex has a 1:1 drive shaft on it for the use of animation motors.
The film-advance mechanism is tied directly to this shaft. If it is
turned slowly, the next frame will be moved into place and then exposed
for however long it takes to get the shaft the rest of the way around.
You can buy these motors, which usually have a shutter speed of 1/5
or 1/10 sec., or make one. I made one using a DC voltage-controlled
gear-head motor cannabalized from one of those goofy miniature satelite
dishes. (ok, they have their uses.) There are also surplus catalogs
where they can be had for 20 bucks or so. Or you local used electronics
store like my local "Vulcan Electronics" (with a poster of Spock on the
front window and the guy seems to find the price for everything somewhere
on the ceiling.:)

The situation you describe is a camera that does not have a drive shaft
but a socket for a cable release to trigger the single frame. First of
all, a problem is that this means the shutter speed is pre-set when
single framing, probably something like 1/60 or 1/40 sec. This will not
work to avoid scan-lines. Some cameras like this, however, have a switch
that makes the shutter act like the 'bulb' setting on a 35mm still
camera: as long as you hold the button down, the shutter will stay open
for timed exposures. The Bolex camera can ALSO do this. This trigger
mechanism requires a lot more torque than the 1:1 shaft, though. I have
a freind who made a device to trigger his this way. He went to a junk
yard and pulled the solenoid that drives the power door-lock from a car
door, A 12volt power supply and parts for a timer circuit from Radio
Shack and viola! He used it to drive across country with the camera
pointing out his windshield, taking frames every 30 seconds or so.
It was an incredible film.

>Our club here has done tons of animations, we just
>can't get them onto tape!

Ok, put them on film, buy a projector at a flea market or somewhere,
and show them on a giant screen at your next meeting!

AP.

##

Subject: More 3D information for some
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 91 15:04:35 PST
From: [e-mail] (Steve Worley)

If you have a good noise filter, wading through the posts in
alt.models can often turn up some neat ideas that are quite applicable
in 3D modelling. In the past, I've seen sources for real-world
blueprints, color charts for military vehicles, insignia sources, and
various little snippets of information like what color wingtip lights
are and how often they should blink. Also, many of you realize how
useful plastic model kits can be if you want to hand-digitize them,
and this newsgroup is THE place to ask about the availablility of
certain models, and questions about which brands are better. You
do have to search for the gems in the mud, though, but I find it
more than useful enough to spend the time.

Just a hint for everyone who can't get enough information. (Like me!)


-Steve

##

Subject: Re: Camo Causing Crashes?
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 91 12:04:06 CST
From: [e-mail] (Michael Linton)

Daryl T. Bartley <[e-mail]> writes:

> Just a quick question about the camo texture. It keeps crashing my machine!
> And while many many things I do in Imagine do this, I didn't expect it from a
> texture! Is there some odd thing about camo that causes this? Every time I ha
> tried to use it, no matter how simple the object, it bought the farm. Anyone
> have ideas as to why? I'm running on a (insane laughter, straightjacket being

Hmmmm, interesting.  I have renderd the camo texture on a 3.5 meg A500 and on
a 6 meg A3000, and a 10 meg A3000, and have had no problems at all.  There
must be someting wrong with the texture.  Maybe you should try it on a friends
machine, and see if the same thing happens.  If it does send your disk back
to Impulse, and ask for a new one.  Is ir possible that you are running out
of ram?  Try to render it again, and pull the Imagine screen down and click
on the Workbench.  Then watch the ram go down.  If it crashes when your ram
get really low, that could be the problem.  Hope this helps.


--- (Michael Linton) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
E-mail: [e-mail]
system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8

##

Subject: Re:  More 3D information for some
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 91 21:56:56 EST
From: [e-mail] (Brian Reynolds)

There is also rec.models.rockets (flying model rockets) for scale
spacecraft and rec.models.rc for the RC crowd.

If rec.models.railroad passes (I don't think the vote has started yet)
they should be a pretty good source too.  There are several "mini-CAD"
systems for doing layout and scenery design and for fabricating
railroad structures.  Model Railroad always has a set of plans each
month.  They have varied from locomotives, to assorted rolling stock,
stations, mines and other industrial sites and buildings.

The Plastistrut catalog is also a good source.  The last time I got a
catalog (which shows dimensioned cross sections of all the structural
pieces they sell) they threw in a free set of plans for building a
swinging railroad draw bridge (it rotates about a center pivot instead
of lifting into the area).  Plastistrut's plans are cross referenced
with their catalog. (guess where they like you to buy the bits and
pieces from? :)  You could use a set of plans and the catalog to
extrude all the structural members, chop them to fit, and then build a
model.

Brian Reynolds "... a drone from sector 7G."
Fusion Systems Group
[e-mail] -or- ...!uupsi!fsg!reynolds

##

Subject: how can I do this easily?
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 91 10:40:12 MST
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>

Has anyone discovered any easy ways to do these things?

  - I have a staging file which contains perhaps 75 to 100 objects.
    Each of these references an object in <blah>/Im_Objects/*.
    I want to move the objects to a different location in my
    filesystem, but since the Stage Editor remembers the path names,
    I have to edit the objects from the Action editor to change
    the pathnames.  Well, OK, but this is slow and tedious when
    you have 100 objects to modify.  Has anyone figured out a
    better way to do them all at once?

  - I want to insert, say, 200 frames in the Action Editor such that my
    current frames shuffle to the right but otherwise remain the same.
    Any ideas?  Perhaps there is something obvious I'm overlooking here?

I'm using 1.0, if that matters.  (Yeah, I just the disks to Impulse to get
the 1.1 version).

 - steve

##

Date: Fri, 22 Nov 91 11:28:56 -0700
From: HURTT CHRISTOPHER MICHAEL <[e-mail]>

                    ***   An Amiga Art Contest!!!   ***

                          Sponsored by CATPAN BBS

    The Society of Amiga Graphics Artists and the CATPAN BBS are proud to
present the Amiga Graphics Art Contest.  This competition has several
different categories, including IFF pictures, HAM/IFF-24 pictures, and
Ray-Trace.
   The IFF category includes all pictures with 64 colors or less created
with programs such as Deluxe Paint.  HAM/IFF-24 includes pictures with
anywhere from 4,096 colors to 16.7 million, such as those created with
Digi-Paint, DCTV, HAM-E, etc.  Ray-Traces can be any Amiga resolution,
but the final product must be direct, untouched output from such programs as
Imagine, Lightwave, or Turbo Silver.
   The grand prize winner will receive either a $30 gift certificate at
Software Etc. or $50 Donator Access on the CATPAN BBS.  The rules are as
follows:

1) All pictures must consist of completely original work by the artist.
   If the category being entered is IFF or HAM/IFF-24 the pictures must be
   completely hand drawn.  If the category is Ray-Tracing, all objects,
   brushmaps, etc. must be the creation of the artist.  The pictures must
   not have appeared in any publications/disk collections.

2) The artist may enter a maximum of one picture into each category.  In
   other words, they may turn in a maximum of 3 pictures (one HAM/IFF-24
   picture, one IFF picture, and one Ray-trace).

3) Each picture must be accompanied with some information on what software
   was used to create the picture, and some techniques the artist used to
   create that picture.  All entries should be uploaded to the CATPAN BBS
   at [phone] (USR Dual Standard).

4) All pictures will be judged by local Amiga SysOps in Colorado.  One
   grand prize winner will be chosen from the various categories, and will
   receive either a $30 gift certificate redeemable at Software Etc., or
   $50 Donator Access on CATPAN BBS.  Second, third and fourth place
   winners will also be chosen and awarded $20, $10 and $5 Donator Access
   respectively.

5) All pictures must be turned in by midnight, December 31, 1991.  Winners
   will be announced on the CATPAN BBS by January 5th, and prizes awarded.

   Everyone is welcome to join in, and if you have any questions, please
leave them to either Charles Holt (Grimalkin), or Chris Hurtt (ZeppeLin) on
the CATPAN BBS.

##

Subject: more model info
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 91 11:00:49 PST
From: [e-mail] (Steve Worley)

>> and this newsgroup is THE place to ask about the availablility of
>> certain models, and questions about which brands are better. You
>>
>        Ok, I'll bite. I recently bought an AT-AT and this should keep me
>busy for some time. I figured I'd warm up on it before pursing one of my big
>goals- the Millenium Falcon. My question is this: anyone know of a good source
>of CAD like plans for Star Wars ships? If your big on Star Trek I know that
>theres a couple big resource books that have schematics for EVERYTHING! I'd
>sure like this for Star Wars.
>        Also, how well does the digitising method work? I'm just measuring by
>hand right now, but am considering buying a DigiView. Hell, for that matter
>what is everyone's opionion on DigiView? Think it'll ever support digitizing
>24-bit?
>
>        Thanks!
>
>        Chris
>        [e-mail]


I don't know of any Star Wars schematics, but you could ask on alt.models
and rec.movies.sf.

Digiview is really passe'-- if you want to slow scan digitize, get a
DCTV which has (IMHO) better quality and supports color.  As a slight
side benefit, you get a wonderful display device... :-) :-)

There is an article in the December AVID magazine about building 3D
computer models from plastic model kits. It talks about different
sources, measurement methods, and overall design planning. In January
another article will follow it up to describe complex shape
digitizing, like boat hulls and the saucer section of a popular
spaceship.

Hope this helps.

-Steve

##

Subject: Re:  more model info
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 91 16:54:42 EST
From: [e-mail] (Brian Reynolds)

Bantam books published a set of Star Wars blueprints.  I don't know if
they are still in print.  You may be able to find a copy at a comic
book store.  Bantam also published at set of books with design drawings
and sketches.  The ones I can think of are "The Art of Star Wars"
(contains the entire script with various drawings, sketches, photos,
and artwork interleaved), "The Star Wars Sketchbook" (contains
preliminary sketches of the various ships and droids), and sketchbooks
for the other movies.

Brian Reynolds "... a drone from sector 7G."
Fusion Systems Group
[e-mail] -or- ...!uupsi!fsg!reynolds

##

Subject: Satellite models
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 91 16:46:52 PST
From: [e-mail] (Steve Worley)

This was just posted to alt.models, if you're interested in space vehicles.
Ed Chadez and other space-dudes, you might want to look into this.

-Steve

>>I am looking for persons interested in modeling satellites from the
>>U.S. space program, the Soviet space program, and other countries.
>>
>>Also, does anyone know of any kits that are available dealing with
>>this subject.  I haven't found any, so I have had to make all of
>>my models from scratch.  Thanks.
>>
>You might want to talk to Planetary Society in Pasadena, CA.
>I use to work there and saw some paper and plastic models
>for Magellen, Galileo, and Voyager probes.  My brother is doing
>a 3D model of Galileo base on schematics provided by JPL
>but, it'd be easier if I get him a real model.
>
>Planetary Society
>65 N. Catalina Ave
>Pasadena, California 91106
>[phone]
>
>-Viet
> [e-mail]

##

Subject: Attributes
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 91 14:12:55 PST
From: [e-mail] (Steve Worley)

A while ago I suggested we try to compile a set of attributes into a library
of surfaces we could all use. I put the 20 or so attributes I had built
up on Hubcap.

Haven't heard anything from anybody since then.

Once again, I ask you to either email me your favorate sets of
attributes (either the saved files from the attributes requestor, or
the raw numbers from the attribute settings), or just upload them to
hubcap. I will volunteer to collect and assemble them into a single
set we all can use. Wouldn't it be really nice to just load
"dirtyglass," "asphalt" or "mirror" instead of figure out all of the
parameters every time?

When Imagine 2.0 comes out we can extend the library to include common
texture and brushmap settings.

-Steve

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                       [e-mail]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

##

Subject: Re:  Satellite models
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 91 23:12:54 EST
From: [e-mail] (Brian Reynolds)

    Here is the address for the company making the paper models of
US space probes:

Space Craft International
953 East Colorado Blvd., No. 201
Pasadena, CA 91106

    They make models of Voyager, Galileo, Magellan, and Hubble.
The kits were released in approximately that order, and the newer ones
get better and better (e.g., Hubble has metallic coating on the solar
collectors and they include a piece of metallic foil for the telescope
tube's heat shield).  Each kit includes information about the
spacecraft and its mission, and suggestions for building science fair
style displays.  The kits go for about $15, and can be ordered direct,
or may be in stock at your local science museum.  Although I haven't
finished any of them (I'm still trying to figure out how to convert
them into 3D computer models), I like them a lot.  The print is very
good, both sides are registered, and the laser cutting is very clean.

    There is also a company selling resin models of US space
probes.  Their address is:

Lunar Models
5040 Grisham, #102
Rowlett, TX 75088
Phone: [phone]:00-17:00 CST

    These kits are expensive.  A 1/25 scale Lunar Rover is $57.95.
The Voyager is $74.95.  Future releases are listed as Hubble in 1/72
to match the Monogram Space Shuttle, and the Viking Mars Lander in
1/25.  Lunar Models is primarily a science fiction company.  They have
a bunch of Lost in Space and Space 2001 models.  I have a Klingon Bird
of Prey (movie version) that they did, and I was not too impress.  The
instructions were minimal, and there was a lot of flash and drop outs
in the mouldings.  IMHO they are over priced, however I have not
bought any of their recent kits (the fact based series is a new line),
and apparently each production run (and series of models) could wind
up being done by a different contractor (which maybe good or bad).  I
have ordered their H.A.L. 9000 wall plaque kit (January 12, 1992 is
Hal's birthday) and if you're interested drop me a line and I let you
know what I think of it when I get it.

    While I'm on the subject of science fiction (and tending to
ramble), Star Tech is also a good source for books, plans, and models.
Their address is:

Star Tech
P.O. Box 456
Dunlap, TN 37327

    In case anyone needs a disclaimer, I am just a customer of
these companies and I receive no compensation for recommending them.

Brian Reynolds "... a drone from sector 7G."
Fusion Systems Group
[e-mail] -or- ...!uupsi!fsg!reynolds

##

Subject: a good chrome
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 91 10:45:00 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Dan Drake)

I'm looking for a good chrome. I have tried the chrome.att that steve uploaded
to hubcap, but it comes out dark and doesn't look much like the shiny chrome
that I want.  I'm rendering in 24 bits if it helps any. I have been fooling
around with spheres, just trying different things out, and most of my
pics resemble cue balls.  I'm playing with the reflectance values, but
as this takes quite a while to render, (or am I just too impatient?), any
help would be nice.

Basically, I want to get a silver mirror surface.  But I don't want it to
be too reflective, as i want to see the shapes that I'm making. I'm really
interested in making a chrome person, though this might be more than I can
chew.

hope this hasn't rambled too much.

dan.

##

Subject: more nieve new user questions
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 91 10:13:31 MST
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>

I have some "nieve new user" questions.

 - What is Imagine doing during the "Initializing" phase of rendering?
   I've noticed that sometimes this goes by in a few seconds, and
   sometimes it takes minutes.  I'm asking because of a curious thing I
   noticed.  I have two projects which I'm comparing.  In one, there are
   over 100 objects, most simple with less than 50 polygons, but some with
   up to 300 polygons.  Some objects have brushmaps also.  When I render
   this project, I have about 2.5 mb of free ram on my 5 mb system, which
   feels "about right".

   Then I compare this to another project I have.  This one has only 4
   objects, none of them very complex (ie, no brushmaps at all, etc).  One
   of the objects is a glass sphere which encloses the others.  The glass
   sphere (actually 2 concentric ones for a hollow effect) was made from
   the "Add->Sphere" menu option of the Detail Editor.  Since this project
   has vastly less polygons than the above, I'd expect it to take less
   memory to render.  However, I only have 0.3 mb of mem free when I
   render it in trace mode.  Why should it take so much more memory than
   the above, when both are rendered using trace?  Is it the glass?  I
   want to figure this out because my project requires enclosing a large
   number of objects in a glass sphere for part of the animation.  If I
   can hardly get 3 objects inside the sphere before running out of
   memory, I don't see any way to get 50 or more in there.  Oh, also I
   notice that all of the memory is allocated during the "initializing"
   stage but after the objects have been loaded.  (Well, a little is
   allocated when the objects are read, but not most of it).

Any suggestions or ideas?   Is there something obvious I'm doing wrong in
my 4-object world to make it take over 4 mb to render?

   - steve

PS - this is great software though in spite of the few problem I have with
it.  I find it is easy to loose track of time when messing with it and
discover suddenly that 4 hours have gone by since I at down at the system!

##

Subject: Chrome
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 91 14:45:30 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)

    One reason I can think of that the  chrome attribute isn't
coming up correctly is that you are rendering it in scanline  with a
black sky and no ground.

    Problem: Reflective (ie chrome) objects in scanline will only
reflect the skycolor and ground objects.  You might try makeing the sky
a gradient, such as blue to white, and setting up some sort of a ground
below the sphere and rendering it in scanline.

    If you wish the chrome sphere to reflect other objects that are
in the scene, you MUST ray trace (*really a bummer*), which will
increase the amount of time to render the scene.

    I have uploaded the same set of attributes, and have found them
to be quite helpful.  The chrome should work.  If you however, choose to
have less reflectance, and more object color,. simply start bringing
down all 3 reflectance sliders until you the mixture you like.



                Mike. C.
                [e-mail]

##

Subject: Initialization period of Imagine
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 91 14:51:53 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)

    In regards to the init. period imagine goes through, i think it
loads up the object and brushmaps.  Also, it initializes the world
setting, the larger the scene layout, the more memory required, (same
thing for burshmaps).

    As for rendering times, the glass is what is takeing up the
memory (i believe).   You will see drastic increases in memory and time
required to trace a scene when Reflectivity and Filtering are used.  The
reason is, these are recursive functions, so when its tracing the light
beam, it will then have to calculate where it hits, and then on from
there.  You can actually set how many time is will recurse by changeing
some  default parameters in the imagine.config file.  With 2 glass
spheres, there will be alot of light bouncing around over and over,
rather than say, bouncing of the glass, and hitting a solid object,
ending the  recursion.  So, tracing with reflect and/or filtering is
what I beleive is  causing the reuslts you  notice.


                    Mike C.
                    [e-mail]

##

Subject: objects following paths
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 91 13:38:42 MST
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>

I have a path object which my camera is assigned to follow.  The camera
does indeed follow this path.  However, it follows it at the wrong speed.
I have the beginning and ending speed for the camera set to 50 units/frame
in the Action Editor.  However, even if I change this numbers to 1
unit/frame or 500 units/frame, it has no effect - the camera still follows
the path at a speed of its own choosing (which is far too slow - it
actually moves about 1 unit per frame).

Has anyone seen this behavior?  I have tried deleting the position bar for
the camera and replacing it with another, and the results are the same.
The camera follows the path, but pays no attention to the speed I set.  I
have also tried deleting the path and replacing it with another of the
same name, with the same results.  I am sure the camera is following the
same path I think it is, because 1) I have only one path, and 2) if I
change the shape of the path, the camera follows the right new path.
The camera position is the same in both the stage editor, and when I
render the frame.  Oh, the accel and decel frame counts are both 0.  I
have also tried making two position bars, one for the first frame only and
one for the rest of the frames.  No luck there either.

I have another project which is much simpler (less than 10 objects) and
the camera both follows the path and pays attention to the speed.  I can
see no obvious difference between the two - the position bars are the
same, in fact.  The only difference is the number of objects I have loaded
in each project.

What am I doing wrong?  How can I get the camera to pay attention to the
speed parameters in the position bar when following a path?

   - steve

##

Subject: Acceleration/Decceleration
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 91 20:19:08 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)

    With regards to Acc/Dec in the stage editor,  good question.
This is one thing I wish to ask about too.  Does anyone know how this
works?  If so, could you post a message explaining how it works.  Just
the fact they call it (De)Acceleration and so on is confusing. Is this
De or Acc ???


                    Thanks,

                        Mike C.
                        [e-mail]

##

Subject: Re: a good chrome
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 91 19:24:50 CST
From: [e-mail] (Michael Linton)

[e-mail] (Dan Drake) writes:

> I'm looking for a good chrome. I have tried the chrome.att that steve uploade
> to hubcap, but it comes out dark and doesn't look much like the shiny chrome
> that I want.  I'm rendering in 24 bits if it helps any. I have been fooling
> around with spheres, just trying different things out, and most of my
> pics resemble cue balls.  I'm playing with the reflectance values, but
> as this takes quite a while to render, (or am I just too impatient?), any
> help would be nice.
>
> Basically, I want to get a silver mirror surface.  But I don't want it to
> be too reflective, as i want to see the shapes that I'm making. I'm really
> interested in making a chrome person, though this might be more than I can
> chew.
>
I think your problem is that you don't have enough objects to reflect, or
you are rendering in scanline, or you don't have a sky or a ground.  For
chrome to look good you need a sky, and or a ground.  Another thing you
might try is in the action editor under globals there is text box that says
brush name.  Get a picture of a room, or trees or something like that, and put
the name of the picture in there.  It makes a much more realistic looking
chrome in some cases.  I'm sure you can get something that looks pretty good
if you just play around enough =)

Hope this helps.


--- (Michael Linton) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
E-mail: [e-mail]
system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8

##

Subject: Fun thing to try
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 91 00:06:45 MST
From: [e-mail] (Ben Scott)

I was playing around and eventually managed to get this to work - it's
a kinda neat effect if you have a few spare hours to raytrace an anim.
Make a simple landscape - I used a plane primitive, half the default
width and four times the default length (I forget the numbers now, but
might be 10 and 40 sections), and play around with the magnetism feature
to get some lumps in both directions from the plane.  Then, make a simple
outline of an airplane (oh, that's right, I used "plain" for the landscape
and "plane" for the shape...), 2-D is OK, and put it above the plain.
Then, a light source above and slightly behind and off to one side of the
airplane.  Put the camera above and somewhat in front of the plane, looking
at the ground, and send the plane scooting by everything.  I set up a
simple 15-frame animation that way and after raytracing, the result was
you see the shadow of a plane moving along the lumpy ground - well, you've
seen shots like that in real life and in computer animations, but it's
still neat to do.  I did end up putting another stationary light source
above the plain (actually, it moved with the plain, since only the plain
moved - I did it that way to avoid having to move the other light, the
plane and the camera) so that the shadows of the landscape on itself
wouldn't interfere too much.

Just an idea if you run out as I so often do...

.                            <<<<Infinite K>>>>

--
.---------------------------------------------------------------------------.
|Ben Scott, professional goof-off and consultant at The Raster Image, Denver|
|Internet [e-mail], or call the Arvada 68K BBS at [phone]|
|--------------------------------------..-----------------------------------|
|"My brothers and sisters all hated me,||The Raster Image IS responsible for|
|'cause I was an only child!"--Weird Al||everything I say!  ** Amiga Power**|
`--------------------------------------'`-----------------------------------'

##

Subject: Re:  Firecracker 24, opinions
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 91 09:15:39 -0800
From: [e-mail]

Michael B. Comet writes:
>The first thing I can say about my impressions of the
>firecracker are WOW!

>    My dad has a toaster, and there is a SIGNIFICANT difference in
>the quality of the images i see.

i have a toaster, and am interested in getting a firecracker to view my
imagine 24bit images, because of the hassle of having to crank up the toaster
each time to see the image, and because the toasterpaint won't load up
the 24IFF images generated from Imagine for some reason.(you have to load and
save them in a program like Black Belts IP)

Is the image quality over toaster *really* that much of an improvement ? In
what ways ? i.e. smooth color transitions, edge detail, etc. ?

> Impulse reccomend the lower resolution image, and in
>my experience the higher 1024 resolution doesn't really gain any extra
>quality.

hmmm. this bothers me somewhat. One of the main reasons i would consider
the firecracker (besides cost) is that it supports the highest resolution
currently available-i would be very disappointed if the extra 256 pixels 768vs
1024 a. did not make any discernable difference in image quality. b. was not a
recommended resolution by the makers-Impulse. There is a *very* noticable
difference between lightwave's 768x482 images vs. their 1530x980  images, even
though the 1530 images are achieved thru sampling and antialiasing.

i would love more details on this and other 24 bit boards, especially in
regards to the Toaster. ( i'm talking just raw screen image quality, not video
vs. rgb,etc...:) )

kevin kodama

[e-mail]

##

Subject: places for big animations
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 91 8:23:42 MST
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>

Now that I've become at least marginally familiar with Imagine, I am
planning to make some fairly large animations.  The one I am making now
will be around 500 frames of 384x440 overscan.  I hope to eventually make
some up to 5000 frames for recording to video tape.

This brings up an interesting point: what to do with it once I finish it!
Since this 500 frame animation may be 10 or 15 megabytes, or say 5
compressed, it seems too large to put on an FTP site unless that site has
explicitly said it doesn't mind having very large files there.

What do other people do with large animations they make?  I bet there are
a lot of neat ones out there.  It would be nice to have an easy way to
share them with other people.

  - steve

##

Subject: Re:  Firecracker 24, opinions
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 91 13:28:17 EST
From: [e-mail] (John J Humpal)

After having used a friend's Firecracker for the past month or so I
can say that its output is simply beautiful.  It is far and away the
best display device for the Amiga that I have seen.  I should add that
all I have seen is HAM-E and DCTV, besides the FC.  The FC outputs RGB,
which of course puts any NTSC display device to shame.  The colors are
bright and vibrant, detail is crisp, edges straight, etc.  The software
that comes with the FC is serviceable, and the paint program is very
powerful although it needs a decent interface.

As for resolution, 768x482 is good enough for most of what you do.  The
1024x482 resolution is naturally finer, but unless you look very, very
closely, you won't be able to tell the difference.  I have used 768x482
for most renderings because the 1024 resolution increases rendering time
dramatically.

-John

John J. Humpal -- [e-mail] -- short .sig, std. disclaimer

##

Subject: Re: places for big animations
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 91 16:16:42 EST
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

> Now that I've become at least marginally familiar with Imagine, I am
> planning to make some fairly large animations.  The one I am making now
> will be around 500 frames of 384x440 overscan.  I hope to eventually make
> some up to 5000 frames for recording to video tape.

You must have a 68040 card or are sticking to scanline mode only because
5000 frames is a BUTT-LOAD of rendering time. I have done only one animation
over 500 frames. It was not ray traced and took 5 weeks to do about a 1000
frames on a 25MHz 68030. Don't let me discourage you, I'm just injecting
a little reality here.

> This brings up an interesting point: what to do with it once I finish it!
> Since this 500 frame animation may be 10 or 15 megabytes, or say 5
> compressed.

It is not very likely that an animation would compress much more than 10
to 20% using something like lharc, and the animation size can vary drastically
depending on complexity. I have one test animation that spans 17MB for only
150 frames.

> What do other people do with large animations they make?

Right now I have around 50MB of DCTV test and demo animations that I have
done. I don't think there are too many ftp sites that have the luxury of
limitless space to accomodate huge anims. I think the best thing to do is
to put them onto video tape and show them around to user groups, vendors
of the products used to create them, at shows, and also submit them to
the various animation contests that pop up. However, uploading a few
JPEG'd 24bit sample frames to Hubcap would be interesting also.
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  |
| --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   |
|      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   |
|     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   |
|                                                                          |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

##

Subject: Long anims
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 91 17:51:57 -0500
From: [e-mail] (BRANHAM,JOSEPH FRANKLIN)

A demo tape seems to be about the only way to show off our talents.
I suppose that it would be really neat to make an Imagine Mailing list
demo tape. I could submit about 10Megs worth of stuff to such a tape
if anyone felt bold/brave enough to take up the project.

The person who ran such a thing would possibly need an ftp site for
temp file storage for submissions, and I wouldn't mind if they charged
a fair price for their troubles. ($8 to $10 per tape + shipping?)

Just a thought.
Frank Branham

##

Subject: Re: places for big animations
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 91 16:23:06 MST
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>

> You must have a 68040 card or are sticking to scanline mode only because
> 5000 frames is a BUTT-LOAD of rendering time. I have done only one

My current animation is scanline.  It renders about one frame per 8 to 10
minutes on my 33 mhz '030.  However, I am probably going to upgrade to an
'040 fairly soon.  I figure at 1 frame/10 min, it should take well under a
week of CPU time for 500 frames.  Even the scanline render looks fairly
good, since I've tried to design the scene such that shadows are not
important.  Also I have no glass or mirrors.

Even trace mode isn't too bad _unless_ you use reflectance, transparency,
or alot of shadow casting light sources.  If you stick to one or two light
sources which cast shadows, trace times are pretty good with Imagine.
Glass kills you though (as expected).

   - steve

##

Subject: Spring
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 91 15:36:54 CST
From: [e-mail] (Michael Linton)

Here's my problem.  I am making an object that has 4 springs on it.  I know
how to make springs using torus' and extruding along a path, that's the problem.
I made one spring and put it with the object then saved it.  The result was
2.15 megs!  I didn't have enough ram to do a solid or shaded rendering in the
detail editor with 10 megs of ram!  So does anyone have any suggestions on
how I can make a pseudo spring?  I though about using a tube, but that doesn't
have enough detail for my tastes.  Even if I make the spring have half as many
points, I can still only put two on the object, and it will be 2.15 megs again..I am running out of ideas.  Any input would be appreciated.

One more thing.  What is the highest resolution of the Firecracker?  According
to Imagine it is 1024x482.  Is this right?  If not, what are the other
resolutions?   Thanks.


--- (Michael Linton) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
E-mail: [e-mail]
system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8

##

Subject: Firecracker 24 - Yet More opinions and such....
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 91 22:19:21 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)

    Okay in response to all of the questions about the firecracker
here is another message.  (please excuse all the typos and weird
characters, i seem to be getting a ton of line noise lately...)

    The resolutions it operates in are:

    Width (X) = 384,512,768 & 1024
    Height (Y)= 241 & 482.

    Not, all combinations are possible, ie you could make a 1024x241
or a 1024x482.  (I have never used X=512 or Y=241).

    As for being better than the toaster, someone elses message
really summed that up.  Definitley better color saturation and much much
sharper edges, (I noticed jaggies in one of the toaster pics).  Also,
the 1024 is better, but for most rendered pics, you're just not going to
sit 3 inches from the monitor, inspecting every pixel (at least i hope
not!).  So, from the standpoint of rendering time and what your eye can
truly see, the 768x482 i usually the prefferd mode.  I have to admit, if
you really had a lot of detail, such as very very fine text. or perhaps,
very thin lines you wanted to show up, the 1024 image is the way to go.

    I don't remember if I mentioned it, (i actually delete mail I
send to myself sometimes!), but since the firecracker genlocks the
normal amiga video you can run  HAM animation or such over 24 bit.
Possible uses : an example is if you have jet or helicopter, now you can
render a cool picture in Vista-Pro and make your jet fly over some
really great looking backgrounds.

    Another reason is one i ran into this weekend.  I rendered this
240 frame (8 sec at 30fps) of these 3 chrome gears rotating around,
while the camera did a 360 around that.  I decided to make a morphing
ground and background.  Needless to say, I didn't have enough ram to
play it back (even with a full 18 megs).  So, i decided I didn't like{
or need the morphing background, but i still wanted a gradient.  Answer
: I rendered th whole thing over on a black sky, and set the genlock sky
box to on in the stage editor globals.  Now, everything but the gears
are clear over the firecracker.  Then I made a slick 24 bit gradient in
Light 24.  Used the showiff24 function which comes with light 24
{software, and loaded up (had 3 megs free now since it was on black)
and played it.  I honestly think it looks better with the one 24 bit
gradient behind it, than with the other ham stuff.~r


    Amyways, i understand where all the questions come from, I had
to buy my firecracker sight-unseen, but I have not regreted my desicion,
to do so.  It is by far the best board out on {the market i think
unless you have $4000 to get the rembrant.

    Also, the firecracker WILL work with a toaster.  After seeing
toaster paint (and using it for quite a while), I don't know how anyone
serious about doing 24 bit grapihcs, retouching, digitizing and such
{could get by with it.  I couldn't see going into to composite a 24
{bit picture for video, unless it was in 24 bit directly.  If you use
toaster paint frequently, i highly recommend the firecracker, just for
Light 24 and for viewing 24 bit pics alone.   If you have the means to
obtain one, and are looking seriously for a 24 bit card, look no
further, the firecracker is a great deal.

            Michael Comet

            [e-mail]

##

Subject: One more thing about firecracker.!!!!
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 91 22:23:15 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)

    I forgot to mention, that even though the firecracker only
outputs the resolutions i listed before (up to 1024x482), you can make a
picture of any size within the constraints of RAM.  Ie you could have a
4x4 picture or a 4000x4000 size.  You then can scroll around in Light 24
to alter it.  This is really great if you plan on taking your work to a
high resolution film recorder.  (Also, Light 24 allows for the loading
saving and altering of brushes, as well as a spare page).

                Mike Comet
                [e-mail]

##

Subject: Re: places for big animations
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 91 09:57:09 EST
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

> My current animation is scanline.  It renders about one frame per 8 to 10
> minutes on my 33 mhz '030.  However, I am probably going to upgrade to an
> '040 fairly soon.

Ah, yes, that sounds reasonably manageable.

> If you stick to one or two light
> sources which cast shadows, trace times are pretty good with Imagine.

Shadow casting really sucks up time in the 1.0 version of LightWave. It
is supposed to be much faster in 2.0 and I hear that a 68040 helps
shadows dramatically. The image I just finished has 17 shadow casting
light sources and takes 6 hours to render.
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  |
| --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   |
|      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   |
|     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   |
|                                                                          |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

##

Subject: Re: Long anims
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 91 10:15:49 EST
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

> I suppose that it would be really neat to make an Imagine Mailing list
> demo tape, if anyone felt bold/brave enough to take up the project.

I like this idea, and I would gladly do it, but I am afraid I wouldn't
have the time to invest. I certainly have more than enough disk space
(about 700MB free at the moment). If no one else volunteers and you aren't
in a rush, maybe I can swing it.
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  |
| --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   |
|      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   |
|     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   |
|                                                                          |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

##

Subject: Re: Spring
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 91 10:34:33 EST
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

> I am making an object that has 4 springs on it.  I know how to make
> springs using torus' and extruding along a path, that's the problem.
> I made one spring and put it with the object then saved it. The result was
> 2.15 megs! I though about using a tube, but that doesn't
> have enough detail for my tastes.

Unless I misunderstand how Imagine does extrusions, extruding a torus is
absolutely wasteful. 90% of the generated polygons will be inside the
spring and be totally invisible. A torus does not gain any benefit over a tube
or circle other than at the endpoints of the extrusion path where it will
appear to be a thick hollow spring. The level of detail your spring will
have will be a function of how many points along your path the object is
"replicated" and how many points define your extruding circle. Depending
on how complex your torus was, using a circle instead should save at
least ten times the amount of memory.
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  |
| --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   |
|      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   |
|     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   |
|                                                                          |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

##

Subject: Re: Firecracker 24 - Yet More opinions and such....
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 91 12:19:25 EST
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

>     As for being better than the toaster, someone elses message
> really summed that up.  Definitley better color saturation and much much
> sharper edges, (I noticed jaggies in one of the toaster pics).

Yes, the Firecracker should definately have better color saturation and
more color crispness, but the jaggies you saw are a function of the
software used to create the image and not the Toaster display.

>     Also, the firecracker WILL work with a toaster.  After seeing
> toaster paint (and using it for quite a while), I don't know how anyone
> serious about doing 24 bit grapihcs, retouching, digitizing and such
> {could get by with it.

Toaster Paint is truly disturbing to work with and DCTV is too blurry for
more detailed work. I can't tell you how much I want a good 24bit paint
program. But since I just bought a color scanner and I have a few more
purchases to make, it looks like it will be some time till I can afford a
third display device.
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  |
| --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   |
|      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   |
|     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   |
|                                                                          |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

##

Subject: a cheap source of 3D fonts
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 91 10:49:03 MST
From: Steve Koren <[e-mail]>

I was looking around a few days ago for a source of 3D font objects for
Imagine.  There is a shareware (?) program which will convert TeX fonts to
Imagine format.  I looked at a sample of those, and they seemed to be very
nice, but to use a whole lot of polygons to render the fonts.  You can
also buy a font package from Impulse with some 3D fonts for Imagine.

Here is another cheap way (cheap in memory, I mean) to get tolerable
quality 3D fonts.  First, get an AmigaDos font in a large point size.  The
larger the better.  I used a 30 point Chicago font, but even bigger would
be better.  Load up your favorite paint program and generate a 1 bitplane
picture with all the letters in it.  Save this.  Go into the Detail Editor
and use "Import IFF" to convert this into an Imagine 3D object.  Imagine
does a pretty good job, but you might have to select a grid size of "1"
and clean up a few points by snapping them to the grid.  When you are
done, extrude this as far as you want, assign attributes, and voila, a 3D
font converted from an AmigaDos font.  The process works best if the
original font isn't very "fancy".  Chicago font works well.  Garnet does
not.

    - steve

##

Subject: TTDDD, Imagine, and external objects
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 91 23:36:06 EST
From: cbmtor![e-mail] (Caleb J. Howard (Tech Support))

Hello there to the forum.
I am currently developing some software to use the TTDDD engine.  The software
is a plant editing suite that achieves a large degree of realism through the
recursive string replacement techniques described in "The Algorithmic Beauty
of Plants"  (Prusinkiewicz & Lindenmayer, 1990).  When I am done, I will give
the executable away to anyone interested (not being a believer that information
is subject to ownership). Anyway, the generative functions are complete to an
extent, and I have been able to render very plant-like stick drawings on my
screen using the most rudimemtary of rendering routines.  Having added the code
to create a TTDDD file for the program (TTDDD) to use, Imagine barfs up a bogus
error - "External objects not supported".  This implies that the program is
recognizing that I am using the same branch segment repeatedly, and that this
is inappropriate.  I suspect that referancing external objects in the creation
of a more complex object was supported in Turbo Silver, but that this feature
has been removed from Imagine.  Why else would TTDDD, a program designed for
use with Turbo Silver support this form of object definition?  Is this so?  Do
we know?  If so, WHY would this feature be disabled?  Was it buggy?  Will it
turn up in a subsequent NEW and IMPROVED version of Imagine? (with the approp-
riate upgrade fee, of course)  Am I whining?
    I have this really, REALLY lifelike plant on my screen.  Its only a stick
   plant, and it's nearly photosynthesizing.  I want to ray trace it!

  Anyway, any info appreciated.
  peace
  -caleb


  p.s.  If you're at the World of Commodore show in Canada (Toronto) I will
    be giving a seminar on graphics that will include my stick plant.

##

Subject: TTDDD, Imagine, and external objects
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 91 11:33:42 PST
From: [e-mail] (Glenn M. Lewis ~)

>>>>> On Mon, 25 Nov 91 23:36:06 EST, cbmtor![e-mail] (Caleb J. Howard (Tech Support)) said:

Caleb> Having added the code to create a TTDDD file for the program
Caleb> (TTDDD) to use, Imagine barfs up a bogus error - "External
Caleb> objects not supported".  This implies that the program is
Caleb> recognizing that I am using the same branch segment repeatedly,
Caleb> and that this is inappropriate.  I suspect that referancing
Caleb> external objects in the creation of a more complex object was
Caleb> supported in Turbo Silver, but that this feature has been removed
Caleb> from Imagine.

    That is quite correct.  Turbo Silver supported External objects,
but Imagine does not...  but there is an easy solution... read on...

Caleb> Why else would TTDDD, a program designed for use with Turbo
Caleb> Silver support this form of object definition?  Is this so?  Do
Caleb> we know?  If so, WHY would this feature be disabled?  Was it
Caleb> buggy?  Will it turn up in a subsequent NEW and IMPROVED version
Caleb> of Imagine? (with the approp- riate upgrade fee, of course) Am I
Caleb> whining?

    Well, I can not speak for Impulse as to why they removed
External objects from Imagine.  No problem, though...

Caleb>     I have this really, REALLY lifelike plant on my screen.  Its
Caleb> only a stick plant, and it's nearly photosynthesizing.  I want to
Caleb> ray trace it!

    Great!  Here is the solution:

    Get TTDDDLIB on hubcap.clemson.edu [130.127.8.1] in the
directory: pub/amiga/incoming/imagine/TTDDDLIB (release17.shar is the
latest, I believe) and load in your object with the "test" program, and
write it out again.  Ooops, I removed "test" from release17... It is
easy... here it is:

----------------------------------------------------------------------

static char rcs_id[] = "$Id: test.c,v 1.3 1991/10/10 19:30:24 glewis Exp $";

#include <stdio.h>
#include "ttdddlib.h"

WORLD *world;

main()
{
    world = read_World(stdin);
    write_TTDDD(world, stdout);
}

----------------------------------------------------------------------

    And that will make all "external" objects internal by loading
them into the structure, and it will write the object back out again,
and Imagine will be happy.  You will be happy, and I will be happy
because you will send in your TTDDD shareware contribution, right?  :-)

    I hope this helps!  Please let me know if you have any problems
with this process.  It should be a breeze.

                            -- Glenn Lewis

[e-mail] | These are my own opinions... not Intel's

##

Subject: Re: TTDDD, Imagine, External objects
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 91 14:50:07 EST
From: [e-mail] (John J Humpal)

I don't know why Imagine would cough on your object with an "External
object..." error, but have you tried loading your object into Turbo
Silver?  This won't really help in the long run, but if TS takes the
object, you can try saving it from TS and reloading it into Imagine.

-John

John J. Humpal -- [e-mail] -- short .sig, std. disclaimer

##

Subject: Re: TTDDD, Imagine, External objects
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 91 12:44:25 PST
From: [e-mail] (Glenn M. Lewis ~)

>>>>> On Tue, 26 Nov 91 14:50:07 EST, [e-mail] (John J Humpal) said:


John> I don't know why Imagine would cough on your object with an
John> "External object..." error, but have you tried loading your object
John> into Turbo Silver?  This won't really help in the long run, but if
John> TS takes the object, you can try saving it from TS and reloading
John> it into Imagine.


    I'm afraid this won't work, John, because Imagine officially
does not support external objects.  Loading into Turbo Silver and
resaving will save only the current "cell" which still will reference
external objects.  If a person did not want to use TTDDDLIB (why not?)
then they could start in a clean cell, load in all the objects and
sub-objects, etc., making sure they are placed correctly, and then save
all of it as a single object.  But that is a pain.  See my previous
message to this mailing list...

                            -- Glenn

##

Subject: recording long anims on videotape
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 91 13:33:35 PST
From: sv001![e-mail] (Patrick Chu)

I've just recently joined this group, so I'm not sure if this is the
appropriate place to ask this question.  However, it seems like there
are people who can answer this question on this mailing list.

Question: What's an economical way of recording long animations to
tape?  By "economical", I mean a VCR < $1000 and software < $500.
Quality is secondary to money (after all, I'm still at the hobby
stage; I don't need broadcast quality-- VHS is fine).  The low cost
may be a pipe dream, but I was reading in this month's _Amiga World_
that there was a device that will save single frames of animation
("crisply", the article said) with accuracy of a few frames on
"compatible" (whatever that means) VHS VCRs.  No, it's not single
frame accrurate, but that's ok.  Anyone know about this?

The problem, of course, is that I have enough room to render long
animations (over 500M right now) and the time (just let it run
overnight and during working hours), but certainly not enough memory.
In recent notes, members of this group were considering transferring
their animations to tape.  Are we talking about using very expensive
equipment here, or are there alternatives? (since my Amiga 2000 and
jumbo hard drive and 68030 loaded with memory has almost wiped me
out financially).

Thanks for reading this.  Any help is always appreciated.

##

Subject: Re:  places for big animations
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 91 17:48:40 EST
From: [e-mail] (Alan Price)

I suggest you attempt reaching a wider audience than those of us who own
Amigas. Get your animation onto video or film, and send it out to festivals,
your local public access cable station, video distrubution companies such
as Film Threat Video rentals, etc. As you may have noticed my previous
bragging, I recently finished an 8 1/2 minute animated film using Imagine
(and Dpaint3 in parts). It has shown at four national festivals and has
been awarded prizes that have so far paid for the production of the film.
(I'm still paying for my A3000, however :) I continue to get mail asking
about distribution and showings due to the previous success. It would be
really cool to see a flood of animation using the Amiga in festivals like
the International Tournee of Animation. Look out Pixar!
AP.

##

Subject: Re: objects following paths
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 91 14:40:52 PST
From: "Jim Lange" <[e-mail]>

In-Reply-To: WRPYR:[e-mail]'s message of 11-23-91 13:38

Steve Koren  <[e-mail]> writes:

>I have a path object which my camera is assigned to follow.  The camera
>does indeed follow this path.  However, it follows it at the wrong speed.
>I have the beginning and ending speed for the camera set to 50 units/frame
>in the Action Editor.  However, even if I change this numbers to 1
>unit/frame or 500 units/frame, it has no effect - the camera still follows
>the path at a speed of its own choosing (which is far too slow - it
>actually moves about 1 unit per frame).

The speed of an object along a path (ignoring de/acceleration for now) is
determined by the length of the path divided by the duration you have set for
it to travel along the path.  Use the path length menu option (forget where it
is right off the top of my head) to determine the length.  For example, if the
length is 100 units and the time is 20 frames, the object will travel at 5
units per frame.

The starting and ending speed values only have an effect when the
acceleration/deceleration frames are non-zero.  They work like this: If, in the
above example, you enter 0 as your starting and ending speeds and 5 frames for
acceleration and deceleration, the object will ACCelerate from 0 to it's
"cruising" speed in 5 frames, then cruise for 10 frames, then DEcelerate for 5
frames down to and ending speed of 0.

    frame:  1 . . . 5 . . . . 10. . . . 15. . . . 20
        \_______/                   \_________/
            |                            |
        acceleration           deceleration
          frames              frames

The "cruising" speed is determined by the length of the center section divided
by the remaining 10 frames (how far the object gets in the 5 frames is
dependent on the formula used for acceleration).  I think imagine's
acceleration/deceleration is very linear (that is, the rate of change is
constant--like gravity), therefore the average speed over the acceleration
frames will be the average of the starting and ending (cruising) speed.  Using
this assumption we can calculate the cruising speed.

    cruising speed = V
    ave speed in frames 1 - 5 = V/2
    ave speed in frames 15-20 = V/2

Since distance traveled = velocity * time, the distance traveled during
acceleration = (V/2)units per frame * 5 frames.

    Total distance = (V/2) * 5  +  V * 10  +  (V/2) * 5

    Total distance is known to be 100 units so we can solve for V:

    100 = (5/2)V + 10V + (5/2)V
    100 = V(2.5 + 10 + 2.5)     = 15V
    V   = 100/15
    V   = 6.66666...

Therefore the objects accelerates from 0 to 6.666 units/frame in 5 frames
(at an average speed of 3.333 it moves 3.333*5 = 16.666 units), then moves at a
constant rate of 6.666 units/frame for 10 frames (traveling 66.666 units) then
decelerates to 0 in the last 5 frames (16.666 units).  The total distance
traveled = 16.666 + 66.666 + 16.666 = 100.

I have not been able to verify the above hypothesis, but it would be an easy
experiment to duplicate and measure.

When the the starting speed is greater than the cruising speed, the object will
DEcelerate DOWN to the cruising speed over the acceleration frames (hence the
ambiguity of de/acceleration).

The formula to determine the cruising speed given the total distance, starting
speed, ending speed, total frames, acceleration frames, and deceleration frame
count can be derived as follows:

    D  = Total Distance
    F  = Total frame count
    f1 = Acceleration frame count
    f2 = Deceleration frame count
    v1 = Initial velocity
    v2 = Final velocity
    V  = Cruising velocity

    D = ((v1 + V)/2) * f1 + V * (F - (f1 + f2)) + ((v2 + V)/2) * f2
        \\_________/    /   \_________________/   \\_________/    /
         \ ave vel     /             |             \ ave vel     /
          \___________/              |              \___________/
        acc distance    cruise distance          dec distance

    Solve for V (several algebraic transformations later)

        2*D - (v1*f1 + v2*f2)
    V = ---------------------
          2*F - (f1 + f2)

In the special case when the starting and ending speeds are zero and the the
acceleration and deceleration frames are each half the number of total frames
(f1 + f2 = F), the formula reduces to:

    V = 2*D / F

In other words, the instantaneous speed between acceleration and deceleration
is double what the speed would be if constant.

More interesting is the special case when the initial and final velocity are
both double the constant speed (v1 = v2 = 2*Vc) and the total frames are split
between acceleration and deceleration (f1 + f2 = F):

        2*D - (2*Vc*.5*F + 2*Vc*.5*F)   2*D - 2*(Vc*F)
    V = ----------------------------- = -------------- = 0
                2*F - F                       F

Since Vc*F = D, the numerator is 0, therefore V = 0.  Thus the object will
decelerate to a complete stop then accelerate to its original velocity.

I have been using the acceleration features to simulate gravity, but because of
the flakiness of the stage editor (I also have experienced bugs where objects
on paths do not go where they are supposed to) I have not been able to get
reliable results.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Lange                [e-mail]
Oracle Corporation            {uunet,apple,hplabs}!oracle!jlange
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

##

Subject: Re:  places for big animations
Date:    Tue, 26 Nov 91 15:39 PST
From: Ivan I                               <[e-mail]>

Even if your animations aren't up to Pixar quality, most festivals have special
awards for Student Animations, First Work for Public Exhibition, ultrashorts,
etc.  So don't think you're going head to head with the big guns right off;
check them out, and if the category fits, enter it!

 Ivan

##

Subject: 3d fonts
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 91 22:42:17 est
From: David Tiberio <[e-mail]>

    Someone recently asked about 3d fonts for Imagine. I have been
working on some fontsm which were converted from 100 point bitmap fonts,
so they are pretty decent. However, they are not 'fine-tuned' for phong
shading yet, since it requires many more polygons. If anyone really wants
it to be corrected for phong shading, I may finish working on them.
    There are two fonts, plus three pics of the fonts in action. Note
that the fonts are in groups. Each group contains the upper case, lower
case, numerals, and some punctation. Enjoy them, and let me know what you
think of them.

David Tiberio
DDD MEN

    Also, I would like to recommend a new program to all users. I have
been using a disk utility called SID 1.06 for a long time now, but today
have decided to no longer use it in favor of Directory Opus. It allows
a large number of disk volumes and assigns to be placed in gadgets, as well
as about 12 custom gadgets. Gadgets can be placed anywhere on the gadget
area (they can be swapped around). It can play soundtracker modules,
hear sounds, view pics, etc. It also works with Zoo, Lharc, and Arc. I
have created custom gadgets that automatically perform the following:

    uuencode and uudecode files
    convert from GIF or IFF24 to HAM pics
    convert from IFF24 to JPEG, or JPEG to IFF24
    switch between Pal and NTSC
    play Imagine or 'the other kind' of animations

    Oh, it also can read powerpacked text files, which works great,
since I already compressed my entire documentation directory. It has an
AREXX port also. Remember, 3000 users might want to double check the
color settings in order to get the 3d look of the gadgets.  It does
require scripts and other commands to perform the above operations, which
I will consider uploading.

Good luck...

David Tiberio
David Tiberio